Pilot removal/fitting Rear Stick in SuperCub (or Stearman or DH82) etc

[kiwicubber]

Hi, does anyone have any manufacturers documentation or Regulators documentation allowing pilots to remove and refit the rear stick in a Super Cub or similar trainer. I was taught the process as part of my type rating as well as the placards fitted, REMOVE REAR STICK FOR SOLO FLIGHT and SOLO FRONT SEAT ONLY indicate that this is a pilots job, not an engineers job. Also it’s not practical to require an engineer and duplicate inspection of course.
In New Zealand our CAA require this to be done by an engineer unless he procedure is in the Flight Manual.
Any thoughts? (Keep it clean!)

cheers Bill

 

[55-PA18A]

I'm not sure a response to a regulation like that could be kept clean !

Jim

 

[akavidflyer]

pretty sure that is part of the don't ask don't tell policy. It was like that when you got in it...

 

[aktango58]

that 3/8 wrench and ratchet stay in the plane all the time for brake pads...

 

[DJ]

Except brake pads are 7/16ths....[emoji849]. Does your kiwi pilot license allow you to do preventative Maintenance? You are really just removing the handle. The important part of the rear stick stays in the plane.

Sounds like CAA fun. They tried to limit all Cessnas here to airports below 8000 ft msl because the takeoff performance charts end at 8000. To set that straight required a letter from Cessna stating the performance charts are not in the Limitations section and therefore not binding.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

 

[mvivion]

I put a drilled bolt in mine with a hair pin. No nut, therefore no “complex” operation to remove. But my answer to your question is “I don’t know”.

MTV

 

[wireweinie]

!/4" carriage bolt and nyloc wing nut. No tools required

Web

 

[Steve Pierce]

that 3/8 wrench and ratchet stay in the plane all the time for brake pads...

Brake pads take a 7/16".

I have a drilled bolt and castle nut with a cowl safety pin.

 

[aktango58]

!/4" carriage bolt and nyloc wing nut. No tools required

Web

Finger tight can come loose with people kicking and bumping things.

Remember there are airshow pilots and others that have crashed when the stick came out. Having it secure when in is important to me, more so than the ease of removal.

 

[wireweinie]

Wing nut has a nyloc insert.

Web

 

[JWE]

How about this?

 

[mvivion]

I've never met a Cub or Husky or Scout rear stick that was very easy to either remove or install, at least without a bit of force. And, if one came out? Who cares, unless you're in the back, instructing. In which case, stick it back in.....

MTV

 

[Crash Jr.]

Same here. The sticks in my J3 are very tight and take some real wiggling/twisting to install and remove. I put a bolt in the hole with a nyloc but it's just there because there's a hole. Same with the family super cub. That one just has a 3/16" clevis pin with a safety pin to keep it in place.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Rear stick in my Super Cub comes out real easy. 13K hours with most of that as a powerline patrol plane. Probably came in and out a lot. Hardly install it now. Pulled my front stick out in flight once. Had been working on the PTT. Noticed it felt different on takeoff, but had my head up my ass, flew it around and somehow on final I pulled it out. I got it back in pretty dam fast. I double check now. One of those fast fixes after work one day. :roll:

 

[skywagon8a]

All good discussions except no one has approached answering kiwicubber's question about the written legality of who is allowed to actually preform the function.
"In New Zealand our CAA require this to be done by an engineer (licensed aircraft mechanic) unless the procedure is in the Flight Manual."

 

[cubdrvr]

I think kiwicubber answered his own question if what he posted is correct. Regulations are regulations.
Not to be condescending but I wouldn't ask the NZ equivalent of the FAA for an issue in the US.

 

[skywagon8a]

I think kiwicubber answered his own question if what he posted is correct. Regulations are regulations.
Not to be condescending but I wouldn't ask the NZ equivalent of the FAA for an issue in the US.

It appears he was asking how it is done in other countries so that he can convince his NZ CAA to authorize him to remove his own stick without calling a mechanic. As it stands now, he is not allowed to touch it.

 

[S2D]

Do what you want privately,

but maybe some of you should read AD 53-04-01 and keep in mind that altering a control system is a major alteration before giving advice on a public forum.


Merry Christmas !!

 

[GreggB]

Helicopters it is a normal process for the pilot to pull secondary controls for passenger flights. No idea about legalities but it might be something to pivot from.

 

[kiwicubber]

I think kiwicubber answered his own question if what he posted is correct. Regulations are regulations.
Not to be condescending but I wouldn't ask the NZ equivalent of the FAA for an issue in the US.

Thanks for all the comments, including the whoopsies
Trouble is NZ CAA brought it up, requiring Licensed engineer (or pilot with a maintenance approval) and a duplicate inspection when removing and refitting the rear stick, or front As appropriate in Stearman/DH-82. A bit impractical as I do training from an airfield with no engineers, the stick is in an out on a regular basis, including at the end of the runway when I jump out to send someone solo and take the stick with me. CAA want $277 to sign me out to do the job, but also need someone for the duplicate, unless Piper put a procedure in the flight manual.
I have just got a copy of the USAF Fight Training manual but no guidance there.
Looks like a solution looking for a problem, but after all this is 2021 so I guess the world moves on.

 

[frequent_flyer]

Trouble is NZ CAA brought it up, requiring Licensed engineer (or pilot with a maintenance approval) and a duplicate inspection when removing and refitting the rear stick, or front As appropriate in Stearman/DH-82.

How does NZ CAA handle the routine assembly and dis-assembly of gliders? For some types it's almost impossible to do it wrong (automatic control connects). For other types it's quite easy to do it wrong yet no "engineer" sign-off required in UK or USA. Many gliders are assembled before each flight and put back in the "box" at the end of the day.

A few years ago FAA tried to mandate a log entry for every assembly but, thankfully, they backed off on that one.

 

[wireweinie]

Here is a service letter covering the replacement of the stick retaining bolt. The last sentence refers to being done 'at the owners option'. Can you use that?

Web

 

[skywagon8a]

.... REMOVE REAR STICK FOR SOLO FLIGHT and SOLO FRONT SEAT ONLY

What requires you to remove the rear stick for solo in the front seat? Here is the states we do not have any reason to remove the rear stick unless it was to interfere with a cargo load or you don't want a passenger handling it. The rear stick is just going along for the ride.

 

[kiwicubber]

How does NZ CAA handle the routine assembly and dis-assembly of gliders? For some types it's almost impossible to do it wrong (automatic control connects). For other types it's quite easy to do it wrong yet no "engineer" sign-off required in UK or USA. Many gliders are assembled before each flight and put back in the "box" at the end of the day.

A few years ago FAA tried to mandate a log entry for every assembly but, thankfully, they backed off on that one.

Gliders in NZ are governed by Gliding NZ with some of their own rules and procedures f_f and they train and approve glider pilots for those tasks and duplicate inspections. As gliding is quite labour intensive anyway there is always someone around for signatures.

 

[kiwicubber]

What requires you to remove the rear stick for solo in the front seat? Here is the states we do not have any reason to remove the rear stick unless it was to interfere with a cargo load or you don't want a passenger handling it. The rear stick is just going along for the ride.

both the reasons you mention are why it is removed. Also good airmanship to tie up the rear seat belts so they don’t jam the controls.
The placard for solo flight is in the Flight Mamual. The other one must be a local airmanship thing. ��

 

[S2D]

both the reasons you mention are why it is removed. Also good airmanship to tie up the rear seat belts so they don’t jam the controls.
The placard for solo flight is in the Flight Mamual. The other one must be a local airmanship thing. ��

If you can't come up with anything, check into the rear stick cover STC. it may give directions for the pilot to accomplish the removal and reinstall. Extra step each time and a cost to install but once done you may have what you need.

 

[kiwicubber]

If you can't come up with anything, check into the rear stick cover STC. it may give directions for the pilot to accomplish the removal and reinstall. Extra step each time and a cost to install but once done you may have what you need.

Good thought thanks, but Attlee Didge cover is a minor mod, requires appropriately rated something and logbook entry.

 

[RedOwlAirfield]

Perhaps I'm thick as well as dull, but...

I still don't understand the reason to remove the stick. Practicalities and legalities aside, why?

Given what we've learned from this thread, it must be a doozy of a reason.

Just wondering. You don't have to tell us. But I'm perplexed.

 

[wireweinie]

There are more Cubs around here without rear sticks than with. Usually for cargo or to keep rear passengers from interfering with flight controls.

Web

 

[RedOwlAirfield]

Out makes sense...
In makes sense....

Quickly convertible?