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More info on Mountain Goat....

We are a group of 3 western Pennsylvanians who built and have been flying a ?homebuilt? version of the Mountain Goat.

Many years ago, I enjoyed a ride with Bill Montagne and was so overwhelmed by the airplane and that flight that I bragged about it for months. We practically jumped off the runway and did a quick climb to altitude where he demonstrated a fast cruise, slow cruise, stalls, a very slow climbing turn (I remember seeing 23 on the ASI). The landing was incredibly steep and short. It was, by far, the most fun I?ve ever had in the sky. I returned home and proceeded to sell my partners on the
plane.

Several months later, we got lucky. Bill called and said he had a ?bare bones?, tacked fuselage and some wing parts he wanted to be rid of because he wanted to move. Shipping turned out to be a real problem and considerable damage ensued, but we had enough to build on. Several years later, after a lot of work and dollars, and a lot of phone calls to Livermore, Ca., we completed our ?homebuilt? Mountain Goat.

We?ve been flying it now for about 3 years and it is every bit the airplane we hoped for, even though we don?t have many of Bill?s special components. We do not use his induction system, special exhaust system he designed nor his landing gear. We used the Bearhawk LG which we like very much. Our goal was more focused on the STOL end of the speed envelope.

On an average day we can get off the runway in about 200 ft, climb like the veritable angel, and cruise at about 130 mph at 75% power. Landings with flaps produce very short rollouts. Stall speeds are 27 with full flaps, 38 with one notch, and 48 clean(half fuel and 2 people). Stalls are gentle and predictable in all configurations. Cruise is very comfortable. Our engine is a low compression Lyc 0-360(168hp) and our wood prop is a Sterba 76-60. Our empty weight is 1240 lbs w/80 lbs tail weight. His design is extremely unique and a barrel of fun to fly. With performance like we get, its hard to imagine how much better the performance
would be in one of his production models.

There is plenty of room in front and rear seats, and lots of room for many pounds of hunting, fishing and camping gear extending about 5 feet from the back of the rear seat.

We think Bill is an amazing fellow - he is honest, honorable and he has always been very kind and helpful to us - a very good friend.

Shelly and partners--Fred and Jeff
pics at http://shellenberger.net/goatworks/
 
Shelley,
Sounds to me like you really like your version of the mountaun goat. The pics look good on your site. I am in Western Pa. and would love the opportunity to come and see your aircraft sometime.

John
 
Hi Shelly,

Thanks for posting the information about your airplane very interesting and I enjoyed the great photos as well. Just curious what kind of AOA the airplane has at the quoted stall speeds and if the airspeeds you quoted for stall were from the ASI or a GPS.

Welcome to SC.org and I hope you find the place interesting and useful. Be really great to run into you at one of the fly ins and check out your MG up close and personal. Thanks again.
 
more info on mountain goat

Shelly
Are you the guys building the Pegazair?

Doug in Kansas

:D My plane is not just another "cub" although some times I wish it was! :(
 
OK, now we are getting somewhere.

Thank You Shelly!!

How much Cub experience do you have to compare to this Mountain Goat, Shelly?

It will be good to hear what Cubunltd has to say, also.

Thanks again, DAVE
 
Shelly,

Always good to get information from the source, although we sure do enjoy speculating around here too...

Thanks!

sj
 
Okay---now we've verified that there are two of them, sorta. Doesn't sound like this one totally "conforms" to the prototype, eh?

MTV
 
goat

So.......does that mean we still get to take advantage of the drunk hygenist ?????? :lol:
 
Always take advantage of drunk hygenists - but wait 8 hours before flying them.........
 
We won't hire them if they don't drink. Wasn't it W. C. Fields that said..."never trust a man (woman) that doesn't drink"
 
Mountain Goat

It's nice to be among friends.

John - sure - anytime - email me.

--------------------------

Gunny - normal steep attitudes. No AOA. ASI

-----------------------------------

Doug - yup! that's us - good to hear from you!

----------------------------------

David M - owned a J-5, flew a tandem wheeled Sepercub, built/flew a
Baby Ace, Hiperbipe, Christavia, Hatz, MG, and now a Pegazair.

-----------------------------------

Steve - you're welcome

------------------------------

MTV - that's about right

------------------------

David J and Gunny - Don't worry - she does prophylaxes!

--------------------

Behindprops - If that's common practice, I'll bet Gunny has clean teeth!

------------------------------

Gunny - Trustworthy! I'd bet that applies to all of us!

-----------

Thanks for making me (us) feel at home -
Shelly, Fred and Jeff
 
Shelly, Fred and Jeff - glad to have you here. Great comebacks LMAO!

What I was trying to get at with the AOA/attitude question and ASI vs. GPS on indicated stall speeds is that with a Supercub at high angles of attack the ASI is notoriously inaccurate because of the pitot location. On mine, with the Dakota leading edge slots I can be flying slow (dirtied up with full flaps) nose pitched up 30 - 40 degrees (high AOA) and showing about 25mph on the ASI - when I checked the speed with the GPS in the same configuration we were showing about 34 mph on the GPS - no wind conditions.

Does the location of the pitot on the MG make the ASI potentially susceptible to the same indication error?

Anyway - glad you guys are here - hope you enjoy the site.
 
Gunny,
I'm sure you'll find all pitot tubes are not accurate at those angles of attack, not just supercubs.
 
Shelly

Mr shelly and group, if you people ever get north you are more than welcome at my liitle strip in Maine.Welcome welcome,and i hope you dont tell your hygenist i was joking about her. Phil. P.S. The Goat is welcome also.
 
The pitot tube on Bill M.'s prototype Mountain Goat pivots to stay aligned with the apparent airflow.

It might not be perfectly accurate, but is probably not too far off because of the pivot and the long pitot mast.

Shelly, I'm not sure if a Whittaker-geared Cub qualifies you for making comparisons. :D

DAVE
 
Cubunltd, is that green on the cub in your avatar a factory color that was offered? I am interested in a shade of green for the rebuild.

Thanks, Lance
 
this plane with cub frame, t-craft wing and husky flaps.....

would that be a Super Tasky plane???? :lol:

can't help myself
 
BottomGun,
No it's not a factory color. It's something we came up with while painting another PA18. We were masking off trim stripes and used the new epa friendly green masking tape. Standing back and looking at the tape work, we decided that would be a good color for the new one. It's PPG Delta DGHS47681

John
 
Thanks John. I looked thru most of the pics here and found two others with a similar green. I like it!

Thanks for the color #

Lance
 
Shelly,

Thanks for the report, and I can ditto the comments about Bill. I got to know him when he first built the original MG and have flown with him when he was "green" with it. Granted the plane has a lot of potential, but it is not a SC for many of the same reasons, neighter is my modified PA-12.

Those of us that have the fortunate opportunity to fly most all kinds of Bush planes in "real conditions" and as well have modified, rebuilt, wrecked/survived and "still fly" are not easily swayed to another configuration of airplane that is "like a cub" only better?

From my perspective, what Bob was and is attempting (and has done quite well) is to develop an aircraft that will carry a comparitive large load of "family camp gear, along with 2 people" and get you where you want to at a speed that will make flying there take less time then the average VW. AS well be an a/c that will open up the oportunities to the moderately competent TW pilot to that beyond the local tarmac.

While I don't claim to be an engineer, or even have near the welding and construction talent that my friend Bill has, I do have a pretty good handle on what a cub will do, and what pilots that operate them are expecting of them in the the bush!

The NUMBER ONE (1) (uno) first priority to a Bush pilot is that he can work the plane, get it home and do it again, and not If, but when he bends it, that it can be repaired in the sticks, with common tools, flown home, and then repaired with out the need for exodic materials, skills, and or $$$. There is not much on a cub that can't be done by anyone with "homespun roots" I am not sure that can be said for the MG, BH, Rebel, Husky, or even the more exotic TC's?

(just my opinion)

Tim
 
Very good point, Tim.

Another thought, and I am guilty of this, is that having done a job a certain way for so long, It makes me feel like someone is telling me I was wrong all these years, when he comes along and tries to show me a "better" way.

Maybe his way IS better, but I don't want to be told I was "wrong" having done it my way.

...just a thought.

So far, there is no proof, that we masses have seen, to verify the Mountain Goat is a better way. When some of us get some stick time, then we can show the proof, better, or worse.

DAVE

What's a TC?
the MG, BH, Rebel, Husky, or even the more exotic TC's?
 
Turbo-Charged.......for the Rocky Mountain flyers in the group.

T-crate would fit in Tim's context of "exotic", especially when considering that one that Kase showed.

I'd think that Top Cub would NOT apply to the context. I could see an ego-centric TopCub owner believing his bird was being discussed, though :splat:
 
Not me! I assumed he meant "other type certificated aircraft"...

sj
 
David M. Calkins said:
The pitot tube on Bill M.'s prototype Mountain Goat pivots to stay aligned with the apparent airflow.


DAVE

I wacked the hell out of my pilot tube...broke it loose, it's flopping around, bent mostly up and outboard. It didn't look like it was in danger of falling completely off, so I decided to leave it and fix it when it warms up....it's never been more accurate....maybe I'll leave it flopping.
 
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