Kydex Forming Interior Panels

[Binty]

OK. you have me interested in using some Kydex to build my interior... You started the thread using no heat and cold forming the beads and then progressed to heating the strip you intended to bead.. is this correct? What about simple folds... torch the fold line? Looks like fun

 

[mike mcs repair]

OK. you have me interested in using some Kydex to build my interior... You started the thread using no heat and cold forming the beads and then progressed to heating the strip you intended to bead.. is this correct? What about simple folds... torch the fold line? Looks like fun

only heat if you must.... (just like making bread into toast, a little heat is good, too much and burnt toast is just gona be burnt toast, or soggy burnt toast if ya try to fix it... ;-) )

i prefer cold if i can get away with it.....

just do trial and error.... really not much error to it...

so many less steps to get a finished piece(no prep, paint/powder coat)

 

[Skip]

Mike can you roll beads into it cold for stiffness and can you break it 90 degrees cold

 

[mike mcs repair]

Mike can you roll beads into it cold for stiffness and can you break it 90 degrees cold

yes and yes

 

[mike mcs repair]

well not interior items but exterior stuff.... took a few minutes each to vacuum form over a blank aluminum teardrop form....

used basically a taped up box connected to a vacuum source with pegboard top... will add pictures later.. like
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=DYI+vaccum+forming&aq=f

then trim to fit like you would the $55(EACH!) aluminum blank piece... (plus you would of had to prime and paint the aluminum ones..the ACA Scout uses things like this, smooth side out)

not bad for my first try!!!!! (no scrap pieces, all useable..)

 

[mike mcs repair]

i see someone has a nice roller/beader/flanger like I have and used extensivly for the kydex forming for sale up here, good set of beaders looks like...

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/tls/2441122754.html

probably cheaper than bringing one up to alaska from harbor freight??... Located in Kenny Lake


also... I am working/thinking on making simple dies to make that deep seam where sheets/pieces overlap....

 

[mike mcs repair]

also... I am working/thinking on making simple dies to make that deep seam where sheets/pieces overlap....

ok, I think it will be simple,

I have not tried this yet, but pretty sure it will work good...

this is my original die,
it was made for another purpose,
and is too complicated for what it needs to do,

to make this side of seam, it really does not need those lips on right edge..
that was just part of my old dies

this is the new "simple" add on part to a standard beader die, you already get with a bead roller kit like from harbor freight or williams low buck tools.

you will just one end of it, not the round bead part..

take 2 or 3 5/8" big fender washers from Lowes,
they were in the grade 5 drawers
(its the OUTSIDE size of these we care about, not the 5/8" hole....)

put them on, I am thinking it will take 3 for .060" kydex ( this need to be 2 times the thickness of your kydex plus the thickness of one big washer)

then for the rest of them use big 7/8" washers
you will want to round edges over on these 7/8" ones only,
with a file or on a sander to look kind like the original die
(not done yet in pictures below)

add one here
(actually you can put more here if you want, this is the part that will be twords center of your sheet on back side.. might even be a good idea!)

then only one to other die

and just bolt that to beader,

might make a bushing or grease bolt and end of die and fill with bondo or epoxy to keep washers centered... or get fancy and weld stack together, maybe drill small holes in washers and rosette weld together....

just wanted something simple any one can make....

would anyone be interested in this as a kit (smoothed, with a bushing to fit bolt)....

what would you be willing to pay??

not saying I want to bother with it, but seeing if there is interest

this seam makes it so nice so you don't catch lip of interior, you roll this fancy seam HOT....

I put this seam in first, with panels made Oversize/length at other lip end.. and fit in plane you determine where to bend lip on other piece to match..

 

[DR]

Mike

I purchased a bead roller from Northern Tools. I cannot get the depth of the bead on the overlapping joint that you show in your pictures. Did you turn a set of rollers to get this depth?

Dean

 

[mike mcs repair]

Mike

I purchased a bead roller from Northern Tools. I cannot get the depth of the bead on the overlapping joint that you show in your pictures. Did you turn a set of rollers to get this depth?

Dean

hi

thanks for the email, and moving the questions here so others can benefit from them...

the weather looks icky so I may be at my shop more than I hoped next day or two....

yes I made my own rollers... 15 years ago, for a different purpose, before I met my new love..kydex... but the old rollers work for it good...

that last post of i made in this thread, shows a new cheap, easy & simple to make concept for doing the seam bead.... might work great...

call me if you have time to play with it....

 

[mike mcs repair]

see other thread for new roller die idea...

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...other-neat-stuff&p=512431&posted=1#post512431

 

[mike mcs repair]

member DR came to visit today and got to be the Guinea pig as we made him a set, for the idea in msg #67 for the seam joint roller that I have had the parts for 3 1/2 months.......

turned out good for the first one.... these just bolt onto end of some of your existing dies...

he'll post some pics too....

remember this is a HOT forming operation, so heat along seam with a small butane torch some before rolling... and keep rolling back and forth till it cools and solidifies....

we are only using outer part of die as a "donor".... forgot to take any pictures in use....

 

[Binty]

hi again mike. how would you go about making the pa18 interior panel which has the d window fold/edge in it from kydex? i have just tried panel beating the curve from sheet alloy over a wooden cutout but the aluminium stretched too far and split. i wanted a nice tidy window trim and am thinking kydex may be the answer...?

 

[pfjay52]

I know you guys will find some interesting stuff on 'Youtube'! Do a search there for 'Lazze metal shaping' and don't tell me you aren't impressed. Lots of great ideas for 'Experimental' builders. Especially the use of the skateboard wheel!
cheers,
phil

 

[mike mcs repair]

hi again mike. how would you go about making the pa18 interior panel which has the d window fold/edge in it from kydex? i have just tried panel beating the curve from sheet alloy over a wooden cutout but the aluminium stretched too far and split. i wanted a nice tidy window trim and am thinking kydex may be the answer...?

I would/have made stuff like that using a particle board form cut out to match D window shape trapping the kydex in the d shape then heating lip ad hand forming over with gloves on.. a cold air blast to harden it... will look for pictures

not sure if you could do that whole D an lip on the side pieces them self or if it will need to be a seprate piece like atlees headliner... I "think" with enough time and wasted material you could get there$$$

 

[mike mcs repair]

this is one we used in the fairchild(used a cub D window frame, that I beat over a form to make more round in back), I did a 2 piece... my first time playing with heat forming kydex.... I fell in love with the stuff!

(ps.. I was NOT the one to put all the ugly screws in, it fit fine without them!! they could have at least spaced them evenly!!)

https://picasaweb.google.com/101445937433180427570/FairchildProject

 

[mike mcs repair]

..
not sure if you could do that whole D an lip on the side pieces them self or if it will need to be a seprate piece like atlees headliner... I "think" with enough time and wasted material you could get there$$$

guess I already tried, it is doable (then used it for rolling practice....)

click for bigger picture

 

[mike mcs repair]

finally had someone want some.... turned out good for first try..

will post more pictures on how to make them once it's trimmed to fit and installed tomorrow.. (actually at my facebook link below there all the pictures I took.. over the last week..)

just some wood forms, a heat gun & micro torch.. and lots of clamps..

and the owner (Dean, a member here) wanted it all the way to stringers in roof above the tubes & ginger bread, so this is much bigger than an Atlee headliner..

someone bring me more(and $) I love making this stuff....

roof goes ABOVE gingerbread by stringers

 

[Binty]

awesome stuff. well done. im going to have a crack at this now. i look forward to the "step by step instructions" ! what thickness is the kydex pictured?

 

[mike mcs repair]

awesome stuff. well done. im going to have a crack at this now. i look forward to the "step by step instructions" ! what thickness is the kydex pictured?

That was .040" thick. Was what he had, and turned out to be easier to form I think.... But also shows flaws more..... Before I was using .063"

 

[Olibuilt]

This is really a work of art. Someday I'll have such a nice interior. Really nice work

 

[mike mcs repair]

plus another 150+ pictures showing how they are formed in my Picasa album towards bottom https://picasaweb.google.com/101445937433180427570/KydexInteriorForming#

FYI... 17 hours to make form blocks, form & install headliner and front top pieces by fuel gauges...

forms made from 1/2 particle board, doubled where shown around window to make 1"

no screws! formed and locked over edge...

 

[wronghand]

That is some inspiring work Mike. Gimme about 3 years and I will be doing the same thing. Or maybe I'll get you to do it. Can you pre-fab the panels once you have a template? Or maybe I'll just make the flight over. Whitehorse isn't THAT far away....

 

[mike mcs repair]

That is some inspiring work Mike. Gimme about 3 years and I will be doing the same thing. Or maybe I'll get you to do it. Can you pre-fab the panels once you have a template? Or maybe I'll just make the flight over. Whitehorse isn't THAT far away....

at this point it is all ONE OFF stuff... Piper never dreamed someone would need to make the window just in the right place I bet!

 

[wronghand]

Haha fair enough. I was thinking more the side panels rather than anything overhead (ie. headliner, wing roots). Having said that I kn ow that even the lower fuselage can vary fairly widely from A/C to A/C. Just wishful thinking more than anything.

 

[nanook]

Sorry if this has been covered. What is the weight savings by using .060 Kydex over Alum interior?
I think in the long run Kydex will hold it's form better than Alum, being more resilient and heat moldable. Alum ends up bent and looking like hell, and is also noisy.... Too bad you can't mass produce these pieces and cut the labor cost...

 

[sierra bravo]

From almost 10 years ago. Time sure flies.

PostPosted: 14 Nov 2003 06:47 Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Some very interesting weight information, especially knowing most guys think Kydex is heavy.

.016 alclad aluminum- .23# per square foot
.020 alclad aluminum- .29#

.028 Kydex- .197#
.040 Kydex- .281#

Aluminum weight per Hadco Aluminum's website.
Kydex weight per Kleerdex Corp. customer service (phone).
Kleerdex is the manufacturer of Kydex.

SB

 

[nanook]

You are quick on the draw SB... I knew I had seen that somewhere...

So if you extrapolate that out to .060, it would somewhat match up with .032 alum.

Has anyone considered using .060 Kydex molded in a form for the Extended Baggage?
the carbon fiber one that was floated around, seemed like a good idea, except for the fact that it's missing in action. Any thoughts, ideas on forming a one piece tub and then putting a lid or top piece on, after you get it in place?

 

[mike mcs repair]

to be fair, we should be talking powder coated aluminum weight.... which adds up!!

 

[Binty]

iv spent quite some time studying the web album pics of the window trim forming and am hoping you can answer a few Qs..
1. why is the wooden d window former edge tapered and not square?
2. why the brown tape? heat protection?
3. would you have a go with .060 or too difficult?

i have tried contacting kydex but they tell me they ship in bulk not small quantities and were generally unhelpfull. id like to try and buy a few sheets in the Los Angeles area.... any ideas who could supply it? sheets

 

[Binty]

ps .. the photo records you publish are a fantastic reference mike. thanks