Sandia Aerospace SAI 340 Quattro as "Primary"

[bubb2]

My neighbor wants to install the SAI 340 as the primary altimeter, airspeed indicator, and turn and bank in a certified PA18-150. The manufacturer indicates it a "back up". Looking for opinions on the legality. Thanks

Sandia Aerospace SAI 340 Quattro Plus Five-in-One Standby Instrument (sarasotaavionics.com)

 

[frequent_flyer]

My neighbor wants to install the SAI 340 as the primary altimeter, airspeed indicator, and turn and bank in a certified PA18-150. The manufacturer indicates it a "back up". Looking for opinions on the legality. Thanks

Sandia Aerospace SAI 340 Quattro Plus Five-in-One Standby Instrument (sarasotaavionics.com)

I had a quick scan of the installation manual and I see nothing that limits this instrument to "back up" use.

https://sandia.aero/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Installation-Manual_306181-00-Rev-2.pdf

Curious why this instrument is being considered instead of a Garmin G5 or even an AV-30.

 

[bubb2]

I had a quick scan of the installation manual and I see nothing that limits this instrument to "back up" use.

https://sandia.aero/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Installation-Manual_306181-00-Rev-2.pdf

Curious why this instrument is being considered instead of a Garmin G5 or even an AV-30.

He acquired it from his employer for nothing. Apparently, there is a current AD that limits it use to VFR. Wasn't very useful in their PC-12.

Now when he says "primary" he means "only". Totally eliminate the original instruments.

 

[frequent_flyer]

He acquired it from his employer for nothing. Apparently, there is a current AD that limits it use to VFR. Wasn't very useful in their PC-12.

https://sandia.aero/storage/2020/09/2020-18-51_Emergency.pdf

Seems a bit unwise to want to fit an attitude indicator that has a known defect. However, Sandia site does say they will fix at no charge (when they have a fix).

 

[bubb2]

My search indicates that both the G5 and the AV-30 are only approved secondary for airspeed and altimeter. The Sandi 340 Quattro appears to have a multitude of TSO's. Sandi also indicates they're close to rectifying the AD issue.

TSO-C2d (Type B), TSO-C3e, TSO-C4c, TSO-C10b (Type I), TSO-C113a, TSO-C201 (A5 HX T7), RTCA DO-347, DO 178C (Level C), DO 160G

Some sites say the TSO's are pending but not sure those sites are just outdated.

Airspeed ............................................................TSO-C2d (Type B) Airspeed Limits .................................................Vso, Vs1, Vfe, Vno, Vne, Vyse, Vmc
Turn and Slip .....................................................TSO-C3e Bank and Pitch ..................................................TSO-C4c Altimeter ...........................................................TSO-C10b (Type II) Display ..............................................................TSO-C113a AHRS ................................................................TSO-C201 (A5HXT7)
Vertical Speed Indicator ....................................TSO-C8E (Type B)

 

[wireweinie]

Wow. wouldn't touch this particular instrument. No manuals or installation instructions on Sandias website. Not sure it's even supported.

All that aside, I'd need to see some kind of documentation that says this instrument is certified for primary use. Most of these style of instruments are installed under an STC which in turn states that it may be used for a primary instrument. Without something like that, I wouldn't think that it meets the requirements of the TCDS.

Web

 

[Herc]

I've been looking for something similar to the AV-30 or GI 275 that is certified for primary airspeed and altitude. No luck so far, anyone know of one?

Edit: it appears the GI 275 can replace the altitude and airspeed as primary but only for VFR flight, unless standby instruments are installed

AFMS section 1.2 - Standby Instruments and the GI 275 ADI:
"Except for installations that are limited to VFR, GI 275 systems require standby attitude, altitude, and airspeed instruments. Several types of standby instruments might be installed, including a standby GI 275 ADI, other ADI, or individual analog instruments."

 

[TcraftF21]

My son bought one for his Mooney and it never worked right. Sent it back multiple times with the same results. Lots of excuses by company after almost 2 years. Finally had to eat it.

Jim

 

[wireweinie]

I've been looking for something similar to the AV-30 or GI 275 that is certified for primary airspeed and altitude. No luck so far, anyone know of one?

Edit: it appears the GI 275 can replace the altitude and airspeed as primary but only for VFR flight, unless standby instruments are installed

AFMS section 1.2 - Standby Instruments and the GI 275 ADI:
"Except for installations that are limited to VFR, GI 275 systems require standby attitude, altitude, and airspeed instruments. Several types of standby instruments might be installed, including a standby GI 275 ADI, other ADI, or individual analog instruments."

They are out there but you might need to sell your aircraft to pay for them.

Web

 

[Herc]

Sounds about right...

Sent from my SM-N986U using SuperCub.Org mobile app

 

[bubb2]

I've been looking for something similar to the AV-30 or GI 275 that is certified for primary airspeed and altitude. No luck so far, anyone know of one?

Edit: it appears the GI 275 can replace the altitude and airspeed as primary but only for VFR flight, unless standby instruments are installed

AFMS section 1.2 - Standby Instruments and the GI 275 ADI:
"Except for installations that are limited to VFR, GI 275 systems require standby attitude, altitude, and airspeed instruments. Several types of standby instruments might be installed, including a standby GI 275 ADI, other ADI, or individual analog instruments."

So the AFM indicates the GI 275 could be used in about 99.9% of the Super Cubs out there (VFR only) as the only source for airspeed and altimeter? Yet the G5 and AV-30 would still require a separate altimeter and ASI?

 

[wireweinie]

A couple of points here. First, the flight manual does not dictate whether an item is legal to install or not. The manufacturer will declare the use of the item in the STC or other paper work. In this case you are looking for wording to the effect of 'this instrument is certified for primary use for the following . . . .'

Secondly, read the screenshots I've attached (or tried to anyways). They specifically state that the uses of this instrument is for ADI, HSI, EIS, and MFD. In paragraph 1-2 it say that airspeed and altimeter are for standby use. In other words, you need a legal airspeed and altimeter in order for those readings to be considered 'standby'.

So far I have not found anything in the Garmin documents that make it legal for primary use for airspeed or altitude.

Web

 

[bubb2]

I guess I'm hung up on the "Except for installations that are limited to VFR," statement in the FAA Approved AFMS. As you point out the devils in the details. I know, to clarify this issue I'll ask my PMI. That should help (sarc).

section 1.2 - Standby Instruments and the GI 275 ADI:
"Except for installations that are limited to VFR, GI 275 systems require standby attitude, altitude, and airspeed instruments. Several types of standby instruments might be installed, including a standby GI 275 ADI, other ADI, or individual analog instruments."

 

[wireweinie]

Ok. Had to make a call and get some info on this one.

Up until a few months ago, this unit was for standby use only and required the retention of primary airspeed and altitude instruments. But Garmin has changed the manuals and it's ok to use them as primary airspeed and altitude now for VFR only. I wouldn't do this, for a few reasons, but there you are. Be sure to talk to your IA before you go and buy one.

Oh and it needs to be the ADHARS version.

Web