Biting off more than I can chew?

[ATCT]

Hey Guys 'n Gals,
Long story short, It looks like I might be able to get a damaged Aeronca L-16A for a great price. Lost power, put into a gas line right of way, a couple longerons were bent and the engine quick stopped. C-85-8 with low time up front, left wing tip has slight impact damage (just the bow), right wing is fine. The main's were bent back so both those mounts are probably toast. I'm currently working on my A&P, logging time ever so slowly and this seems like the perfect project to get in, learn how to cut and weld (ha! if it was that simple), RnR, overhaul, and recover.

My background;
ATC for career, been flying taildraggers since I would walk, just started taking the A&P route seriously about 2 years ago when I bought my Super Cub. Ive been able to do minor fabric repairs, covered a rudder, and worked on the annual with a member from this site (thanks for your instruction DB!!!). The past few months been working on radials and warbirds on my off time working on practical for my A&P.

The Good:
I know the airplane, all logs, who worked on it etc. Most of the fuselage is fine. The right wing has no damage.

The Bad:
Engine lost power causing forced landing (landed with some power causing quick stop). Landed in 4ft grass that caused the gear to buckle, engine mount bent, A couple of the forward longerons bent and need replaced (I counted 4 that were visibly bent without going into a jig). When the gear buckled, she rotated 180 degrees and grabbed the left wing tip - breaking the bow but no other visible damage.

I've been musing a project to learn and earn my A&P on and a good plane to teach my kids in and let my dad (who wants to get rid of his medical, go LSA) fly. I currently have a flying airplane, a '76 Super Cub so I am not without a flying bird while she takes my time for a rebuild. I know the fuselage and engine need going over 100%, the right wing is most likely okay, the left (for my sake) I plan on taking down to wood and RnR what is needed.

I appreciate anyone's input as I am #1 clueless about Aeronca's and #2 new to the world of restoration!

 

[Cub junkie]

Aeronca fuselages are pretty simple. Gear fittings are similar to cub but narrow. C-85 champs are good flyers. I just bought a bunch of PMA parts to repair/rebuild my champ. Be prepared for sticker shock on that. What is the status of the spars? Lots to know about various champ spar remedies.

 

[ATCT]

Aeronca fuselages are pretty simple. Gear fittings are similar to cub but narrow. C-85 champs are good flyers. I just bought a bunch of PMA parts to repair/rebuild my champ. Be prepared for sticker shock on that. What is the status of the spars? Lots to know about various champ spar remedies.

Right wing has no damage. On the left I plan to remove the fabric and do a good looksie what what lies underneath. If it's damaged, repair and replace as needed. Luckily for parts, Aircraft Spruce is 5 minutes from from front door...now Univair is a bit further!

 

[behindpropellers]

Kids yet? In the plan?

 

[N86250]

There is an AD on the wing spars you should be aware of as at least one wing will require an inspection. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/search/?q=american+champion+7ac The fuselage jig in the eastern USA is in limbo right now. It may yet end up in the hands of the National Aeronca Association which you might want to sign on with or join. http://www.joea.com/phpBB2/ You should also sign on with the "fearless Aeronca Aviators" who are the equivalent of supercub.org for Aeroncas. http://aeronca.westmont.edu/people/ jrh

 

[Super11XP]

This is just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth and feel free to disagree with me, but my experience with the champs are that all the parts, time, labor ect are similar in cost to the cub line, and while I can admit the extra room and speed of the champs are nice, you'll spend the same amount of $$$ and barely break even or lose $$ if you ever sell it.

 

[aktango58]

Costs about the same to rebuild any of the fabric birds, so return on dollar is much better on Pipers.

That said, the champ is a GREAT flying airplane. I miss mine quite often.

Check both wing spars, well worth your time for that. Check out the AD, it will help.

If it is a project you want, and it is close, good for you. But consider: my friend stripped the fabric off of a flying airplane to recover, no damage. Expected it to be one winter... three winters ago. Just the repairs of unknown damage took 6 weeks...

So make your choice, and enjoy the ride. Would be a great plane to teach kids!

 

[mike mcs repair]

pay attention to the posts about the cost, and what the end value is....

you put x $ in and only worth less when done on MANY planes....

but if it gets you in the air......

 

[Steve Pierce]

If you realize you will probably be upside down in the airplane when you are finish but will have an airplane the way you want it and that you know inside and out you will be in good shape. Those kids start taking up a lot of your spare time.

 

[Richgj3]

Many years ago when I was still working a regular job, I decided I wanted to learn all that stuff. I took my flying but tired T Craft down to bare everything and worked in an IA shop under his supervision. It took me two years of spare time and I didn't have any major repairs to do. That was 35 years ago. I'm still not ready to do it again. When I got done I had about $6000 in the project. I could have purchased the best T Craft in the country for that and saved myself two years.

My buddy got a damaged J3 a few years ago. Planned on a one year project. It took three. And he has about twice as much money in it than it will sell for.

So, if you want to fly, buy a flying airplane. If you want to learn, do it on other peoples planes:lol:

Just my opinion

Rich

 

[Cub junkie]

All these classics, cubs included are money pits and rebuilding any of them is for the enjoyment of it. You don't make money on them as an individual. Only shops make money rebuilding these types of airplanes and then their profit is low. The OP's subject airplane is a C-85 L16, certainly worth rebuilding. Just figure on everything taking twice as long as you think it will take and twice as much money. Bill Pancake of West Virginia is the best Aeronca guru on the planet and shares his knowledge freely.

 

[N86250]

Now there is another question. Is it a true L16 or is it a clone? There are 7ACs that were converted to 85 or 90 HP and had the "no bounce" landing gear installed to be passed off as an L16. To some it makes a difference and to some it does not. jrh

 

[behindpropellers]

I would find another person interested in it....pretty boring working by yourself on this kind of thing.

Tim

 

[mvivion]

Look carefully at BOTH sets of spars. There could easily be more hidden damage or at least questionable condition on spars from previous, unknown "events". I would never assume that wood spars are good just because there's no obvious damage to a wing.

Frankly there's lots of paranoia out there about wood spars. Problem is, sometimes concern is valid..

MTV

 

[skywagon8a]

Hey Guys 'n Gals,
Long story short, It looks like I might be able to get a damaged Aeronca L-16A for a great price. ....

Don't pay more than the value of the engine. Then it will be a great price. Any more and it should just be a consideration of part of the cost to teach your kids to fly.

 

[Hardtailjohn]

It depends on what you enjoy. If you enjoy the mechanical end of it, buy the project. Yeah, you'll be upside down in it when you're done, most likely....but the "worth" to you, having done it yourself might be worth more than any dollar figure. I know...that's the way I am. I'd much rather have one that I did, even though I could probably buy the same thing cheaper, and much quicker. It's YOUR time and money....do what YOU want with it.
John

 

[kase]

If you want experience you should offer to rebuild somebodys Champ, Tcraft or cub for free. That way your just out your time. If you rebuild that Champ and buy parts you will be out your time and 10k when you sell it. Some airplanes you'll lose money even if they are free.

 

[ATCT]

Hey Guys (Sorry for the late reply!). She is a legit L-16A (cool, but doesn't make/break the deal for me). Great advice to give the wings a good look over.

Tim, yep, 6 month old daughter! I take her to the hangar, put her in her play pen, and work away! Can't wait till she gets old enough to help (if she's into that!). A long way from a single kid at Finleyville working to get any hour of flying time I could scrounge!

Long story short, my post is now moot. She's a CAF airplane and the previous owner (90+ y/o gentleman) who donated it to us in the first place is buying her back. I won't get into a bidding war with him as he is a true gentleman and his wife bought him this plane many many years ago as a present. Let alone he puts up with this noob and has been helping me learn fabric work! I bet I'll still be helping him do a lot of the work and look forward to learning from his experience!

Thanks again for all the advice, ya'll are awesome!

 

[behindpropellers]

Tim, yep, 6 month old daughter! I take her to the hangar, put her in her play pen, and work away! Can't wait till she gets old enough to help (if she's into that!). A long way from a single kid at Finleyville working to get any hour of flying time I could scrounge!

Hah. 3 months or so. Then you will just be chasing her around. Mine are 3 and 1.5.

Tim

 

[behindpropellers]

PS- You will be 180 shopping shortly......