Mooney M20F

texmex · Dec 29, 2022

Hi Guys.

Not a conversation you would expect to have on SuperCub.org

However, I know of a M20F that's been hangared for the last twenty years (desert environment) and am wondering about pulling it out and getting it going.

Now the guy who owns the hangar (my father) is the type of guy who says it 'only needs air in the tyres'. And the guy contemplating using it (me) thinks it'll need a lot more but it maybe a good 'time builder' for the kids. The aircraft is owned by an old Dr friend of the family who hasn't flown for 25 years.

I'm thinking it'll need;

Prop overhaul
Gear rebuild
Tyres
New engine hoses for the Lycoming IO-360 (any idea of cost here?)
Interior out for corrosion check on the steel frame
Fuel tanks, spar check for corrosion

The windows look fine, and the dash, well it looks messy like Mooney dashes do. But basically the interior is fine.

Anybody played with Mooney's that would like to comment.

When I was 19 my father found an old M20 with the manual gear handle in a paddock as he was out spraying. He bought it, pumped up the tyres and we had a lot of fun in it. A few owners down the track about ten years later had less fun as they packed it off to the tip with corroded spars. No doubt the result of sitting out in a paddock for 20 years.

Cheers,
Texmex.

dgapilot · Dec 29, 2022

I’m in the process of a similar type, purchased a twin comanche that hasn’t flown since 1999. Been working on it a couple days a week since August and I’m still about a month from flying pending any other surprises. Hoses for sure! Go through the gear, as I recall you need some special tools to verify the gear rigging. Hold your fingers crossed you don’t have leaking tanks, resealing Mooney tanks are a royal pain. Check for mice and mud dobbers. You will likely have corrosion on a lot of wire terminals, might take some time getting the electrons to flow where they are supposed to go.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

hotrod180 · Dec 29, 2022

Lycomings don't seem to age well when unflown, cam & lifter corrosion are common.
Might wanna pull a cylinder & look everything over in there.

bob turner · Dec 29, 2022

Desert is different. Corrosion is not nearly as much problem in Tucson as it is in LA.

probably will need fuel tank work - they all do. Bladders might be best.

I love Mooneys, but if I were going to refurbish one it would be a "J".

texmex · Mar 30, 2023

Hello All. I ended up getting the M20F.

The bones of it are really in quite good order. But like child birth (so I'm told) you forget about the enormous amount of work and painful expense of getting an old aircraft going.

A few things have surprised. Every control surface bearing was frozen solid. Mooney unfortunately choose the rarest most expensive bearings they could find. I think I've got the last of them off LASAR.

The mounting blocks on the main gear were flogged. The nose gear truss worn causing the shimmy that was written about in the papers that came with the aircraft. Thanks again LASAR, who have been very helpful. However I get the impression that they too are struggling to source parts. I guess older aeroplanes get harder and harder to upkeep. But that has surprised me as I thought, 'ha Mooney's there's lots of them, parts will be plentiful'.

It's new home for the next few months.

One thing that's been a blessing is the internals of the engine. We pulled number 1 cylinder as it was low on compression, showed signs of weeping around the base seal and mostly as I was curious about the innards. And it was brand new. Zero sign of corrosion. The cam had a good profile and very minor discolouration on the followers. No pitting, spalling or any other worry. I was ever so relieved. The guy that ran it up every few months in the desert like storage really has saved this aircraft.

texmex · Mar 30, 2023

Where do you stop here? The Vac pump was out and I had the AH/DG bench tested. Both failed. So I'm removing the Vac system and am putting in 2 G5's.

The only avionics staying here are the Garmin 100 and slim comm, and only because I'm out of money. A new Garmin audio select/interphone, comm and transponder going in. The aircraft will be night VFR phase one. Depending on how much love the aircraft gets from the numerous family members who have pilots licenses will depend on whether the IFR phase 2 happens. And of course that stinking USD which is killing me. (Or is it the Peso's I get paid :sad: )

When my girls had a horse they were happy to ride it, but wouldn't be out there all hours grooming it. So the horse got moved on. Time will tell with the Mooney.

Steve Pierce · Mar 30, 2023

I still have a Garmin 100 AVD on my shelf above my desk. We were in high cotton back in the mid 1990s when my boss gave that GPS to his son and I for our Clipper.

wireweinie · Mar 30, 2023

Keeping the Garmin 100? Is the com a KY197?

Web

texmex · Mar 30, 2023

I like the Garmin 100. I flew with a lot fancier GPS's, and could never work out what they did better. Or said another way, what more is needed beyond track made good, and track required. But I was never flying RNP approaches in my GA GOD's.

Also it's there. I did think what the hell, go straight to phase 2 now. But then I priced up a few things and found out they cost more than I have.

KY197 - I'll let you know Sunday. Not sure now.

texmex · Apr 5, 2023

Evening Web,

It's a KY 97A TSO.

I'm thinking TSO is obviously Technical Standards Order. But why would you write on the face.

This is the one staying.

TcraftF21 · Apr 5, 2023

My son has lots of Mooney experience. M20E and now a 252. I flew the E across the country and it flew well. Not much trouble with the E as far as tanks, gear, etc. The 252 is another matter. Yours looks good and well equipped with a good auto pilot. Once you get the age related stuff taken care of you will have a nice plane.

Jim

hotrod180 · Apr 5, 2023

texmex said:
....It's a KY 97A TSO. I'm thinking TSO is obviously Technical Standards Order. But why would you write on the face. .....

Dunno why, but fwiw Narco did the same thing with their Com 810 TSO.

bob turner · Apr 5, 2023

Just a sales gimmick. All radios have to meet the TSO requirements. It costs lots extra to prove that to the FAA. As far as "we" can tell, there is no requirement for part 91 Coms or transponders to actually be "TSO," although transponders have to meet TSO requirements.

Is this Mooney a retract? If so, you will love it.

FdxLou · Apr 5, 2023

Bob
Never heard of a fixed gear Mooney.
Lou

wireweinie · Apr 6, 2023

texmex said:
Evening Web,

It's a KY 97A TSO.

I'm thinking TSO is obviously Technical Standards Order. But why would you write on the face.

This is the one staying.

View attachment 65350

TSO on the face is just for bragging. Good radio and still supported. The 100 is way past being supported. Doubt any updates available. What kind of avionics are you looking to install?

Web

skywagon8a · Apr 6, 2023

FdxLou said:
Bob
Never heard of a fixed gear Mooney.
Lou

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/508-fixed-gear-mooney/
"Mooney built 100 M20D models in 1962 (serial numbers 101-200). The factory price was $13,995. In 1964, they built 51 more (serial numbers 201-251). The last fixed-gear Mooney aircraft were produced in 1965. It was a very limited run of only 8 aircraft (serial numbers 252-259). We have #125 built in 1963. All the rest have either been converted or have been salvaged."

FdxLou · Apr 6, 2023

Thanks Pete. Didn’t know that &#55357;&#56397;.
Lou

OLDCROWE · Apr 6, 2023

texmex said:
View attachment 65258

Where do you stop here? The Vac pump was out and I had the AH/DG bench tested. Both failed. So I'm removing the Vac system and am putting in 2 G5's.

The only avionics staying here are the Garmin 100 and slim comm, and only because I'm out of money. A new Garmin audio select/interphone, comm and transponder going in. The aircraft will be night VFR phase one. Depending on how much love the aircraft gets from the numerous family members who have pilots licenses will depend on whether the IFR phase 2 happens. And of course that stinking USD which is killing me. (Or is it the Peso's I get paid :sad: )

When my girls had a horse they were happy to ride it, but wouldn't be out there all hours grooming it. So the horse got moved on. Time will tell with the Mooney.

View attachment 65259

Keep the Autopilot (S-Tec's are easily serviced if it has issues) and get it connected for GPSS.

mvivion · Apr 6, 2023

texmex said:
View attachment 65258

Where do you stop here? The Vac pump was out and I had the AH/DG bench tested. Both failed. So I'm removing the Vac system and am putting in 2 G5's.

The only avionics staying here are the Garmin 100 and slim comm, and only because I'm out of money. A new Garmin audio select/interphone, comm and transponder going in. The aircraft will be night VFR phase one. Depending on how much love the aircraft gets from the numerous family members who have pilots licenses will depend on whether the IFR phase 2 happens. And of course that stinking USD which is killing me. (Or is it the Peso's I get paid :sad: )

When my girls had a horse they were happy to ride it, but wouldn't be out there all hours grooming it. So the horse got moved on. Time will tell with the Mooney.

View attachment 65259

Man, that is one of the tightest packed instrument panels I've seen on a light plane! I'll bet the back side of it is impressive too!

MTV

skywagon8a · Apr 6, 2023

mvivion said:
Man, that is one of the tightest packed instrument panels I've seen on a light plane! I'll bet the back side of it is impressive too!

MTV

There is a panel full of screws in front of the windshield to get at the back of the panel from outside the airplane.

wireweinie · Apr 6, 2023

skywagon8a said:
There is a panel full of screws in front of the windshield to get at the back of the panel from outside the airplane.

Even then it's not much fun. Still some better than a 206 panel, though.

Web

bob turner · Apr 6, 2023

I did a B model panel, including conversion to "six pack" and my own audio selector. Having that removable panel made it a trivial job. Cannot do that on a J model.
Worked pretty good - I took that ancient airplane in and out of LAX five days a week for a month, going to Murdo Cameron's Flight Engineer school.

sj · Apr 7, 2023

FdxLou said:
Thanks Pete. Didn’t know that &#55357;&#56397;.
Lou

Cublite (Pat Svoboda) has one of these that has been converted. He has a tale about landing it at Sherman in KC when the prop came off....

sj

hotrod180 · Apr 7, 2023

bob turner said:
Just a sales gimmick. All radios have to meet the TSO requirements. It costs lots extra to prove that to the FAA. As far as "we" can tell, there is no requirement for part 91 Coms or transponders to actually be "TSO," although transponders have to meet TSO requirements......

"All radios have to meet the TSO requirements"...not so sure about that.
Seems like I recall hearing that King KX170 & KX175 nav-coms weren't TSO'd.
Also, years ago I wanted to replace the two old crappy com radios in my old C150TD with one good one.
A couple buddies of mine had had good luck with Icom A200's, so that's what I wanted.
They sold two versions, one was TSO'd and one ("for experimentals") wasn't.
Our local PMI told my IA that if I installed the TSO'd radio, the IA could just sign off the 337,
but if I chose the non-TSO'd radio, it would need a field approval.
The TSO'd radio was $100 more, but I figured it was well worth it just to avoid the field approval process.

skywagon8a · Apr 7, 2023

hotrod180 said:
Seems like I recall hearing that King KX170 & KX175 nav-coms weren't TSO'd.

The KX170 is not TSOd, The KX175 is TSOd.

wireweinie · Apr 7, 2023

No specific requirement for a TSO on a radio. It has very little if anything to do with the installation. And unless you are using something with a primary navigation system (think Garmin stuff with a certified VOR and certified GPS nav) or a transponder used as part of an ADS-B system (has to meet certain data and power requirements) install with a log entry only. The higher end stuff will have an STC on it which will require a 337 signed of by A&P and IA only, no field approval.

There are TONS of avionics out there, installed legally with no TSO, etc, on them.

frequent_flyer · Apr 7, 2023

Some, perhaps many, TSO simply provide a list of standards that the equipment must comply with for TSO approval. Equipment developed and tested to those standards may "meet the requirements of the TSO" but the manufacturer may have chosen not to jump through all the hoops to have a TSO issued.

bob turner · Apr 7, 2023

“Meet”, according to the FAA, does not require jumping through the TSO hoop. Any radio that meets RTCA DO 186 B also meets TSO. For an FAA definition of “Meet” see Appendix A.10 of Order 8300.16A.

My favorite com radio is not TSO. It meets TSO requirements, and is acceptable according to AC 20.67B.

hotrod180 · Apr 8, 2023

bob turner said:
....My favorite com radio is not TSO. It meets TSO requirements, and is acceptable according to AC 20.67B.

I seem to recall a long thread about you having trouble with the fsdo about a com radio you liked (Garmin?) not meeting their approval?
So maybe it's not so "acceptable" after all.

bob turner · Apr 8, 2023

Like everybody who has been approached by the FAA on this issue, they (the FAA) just gave up.

They can wave their arms and holler all day long, but in order to violate you they need to indicate what regulation you are violating. Believe me, if they could figure that out I would be in Guantanamo or worse. I have installed five such radios.

My old buddy Jim Weir, of RST fame, has been down this road. He stood his ground, and they went away. I think he said it was a group - maybe from Washington? And they drove all the way to Grass Valley, without bringing a regulation.

When you are guilty, own up to it. You just get some retraining these days. But when you are right, do not let them frighten you into submission. Demand to see the regulation.

Mooney M20F

Hanging Rock, Australia.

FRIEND

Port Townsend, WA

Registered User

Hanging Rock, Australia.

Attachments

Hanging Rock, Australia.

Attachments

Graham, TX

Palmer, AK

Hanging Rock, Australia.

Hanging Rock, Australia.

Attachments

Rochester, NY

Port Townsend, WA

Attachments

Registered User

Canton, GA

Palmer, AK

SE Mass MA6

Canton, GA

Meanwhile,...

Bozeman,MT

SE Mass MA6

Palmer, AK

Registered User

Northwest Arkansas

Port Townsend, WA

SE Mass MA6

Palmer, AK

Registered User

Arizona, USA

Registered User

Port Townsend, WA

Registered User

Similar threads