Slats and other mod questions

[Flyboy8]

My father-in-law and I are in the market for a super cub. Previously had a pa-18 with 180hp and tundras until somebody ran it out of fuel and crashed into a corn field. We are curious about leading edge slats but hear mixed reviews. Don't care about short takeoff/landing because I know any cub can perform well there. More interested in safety and benefits and negatives.

Another question and I know it all depends on the builder but how well are some of these kit planes built? Interested in a couple for sale but unsure because someone who I don't know put it together. One forsale is a SQ-3 and I can't seem to find much information about it.

Thanks for your help. New to the kit/experimental area

 

[brown bear]

I have not flown a SQ or any other cub with slats but I have flown my homebuilt with slats for 1800 hours and I would hate to go back to a unslated wing .
I mostly find 2 kinds of pilots when talking about slats . Those that have flown them and like them and those that have not flown them.
In aviation for more than a 100 years we have been killing pilots do to loss of control at low alt. and we all think " it can't happen to me " because we are smarter or better or luckier pilots . But every year it just keeps happening . While there is most likely no way to stop all of the low alt. loss of control accidents , this much I am convinced of " there would be more old bold pilots " if more planes had well engineered slats.
Doug

 

[tedwaltman1]

SQ-3 is a three place, i.e. a PA-12 type of experimental cub.

 

[Bill Rusk]

Welcome to the SC.org forum, Flyboy8.

Slats and/or slots can be great things depending on your mission. Slats tend to extract a speed penalty at cruise and slots tend to be heavy. Both work well at high AOA and do seem to add a safety factor.

Experimental Cubs may have awesome quality or "not so much". It depends on the builder. Also the quality of the paint job is not always indicative of the quality of the rest of the build. I have seen some wonderful paint jobs but what was under the paint was a trainwreck. I have seen some paint jobs that looked like they were done with a latex house paint roller but the structure and all that really mattered was great. The Buyer Beware" sign applies to all aircraft but perhaps more so to experimentals.

There is a lot more flexibility to modify and tweak an experimental. You can do your own maintenance if you are so inclined. Be sure you get a knowledgeable guy, like Sean Tubbs, from Caldwell Idaho to help you with a pre-buy inspection.

Best of luck

Bill

 

[jasimmons]

X2 on Shaun Tubbs (Performance Air Inc.). Smart guy. Good guy.

Andrew

 

[mvivion]

Welcome to the SC.org forum, Flyboy8.

Slats and/or slots can be great things depending on your mission. Slats tend to extract a speed penalty at cruise and slots tend to be heavy. Both work well at high AOA and do seem to add a safety factor.

Experimental Cubs may have awesome quality or "not so much". It depends on the builder. Also the quality of the paint job is not always indicative of the quality of the rest of the build. I have seen some wonderful paint jobs but what was under the paint was a trainwreck. I have seen some paint jobs that looked like they were done with a latex house paint roller but the structure and all that really mattered was great. The Buyer Beware" sign applies to all aircraft but perhaps more so to experimentals.

There is a lot more flexibility to modify and tweak an experimental. You can do your own maintenance if you are so inclined. Be sure you get a knowledgeable guy, like Sean Tubbs, from Caldwell Idaho to help you with a pre-buy inspection.

Best of luck

Bill

I was once told by Aviat's then experimental and production test pilot that if I were to consider purchasing an experimental Pitts I should give him a call and he'd take a look at it for me. He said the same thing Bill posted.....there's some scary welding and other structural "stuff" out there. There's also some amazingly competent experimental builds, and these are probably the majority of the Experimental clan. But, it only takes one turkey to ruin your week.

MTV

 

[Barnstormer]

The safety advantage of Slats is second to none. I can't speak to Slots having never flown a plane with them. On my SQ2, any time the wings are generating lift, the Slats are deployed. They do so automatically so how far they deploy depends on the wing's angle of attack. They do add drag, although I can't speak to how much.

I have friends who, on "across the country" flights, have pinned the Slats closed by simply drilling a hole in appropriate hinge points and installing cotter pins. I would exercise caution here because doing so removes the safety aspect of Slats and you need to remember that throughout the flight.

I recall a flight made a couple of years ago, I think from Colorado to Idaho, where the pilot pinned his Slats (not a SQ) and enroute crashed killing himself and his passenger. I have no idea what happened but I recall thinking at the time that perhaps he spun it in due to flying the plane in a profile he was used to-but required Slats to be done safely. Again, don't know the actual cause.

Backcountry Supercub is working on Slats that can be manually deployed with a lever similar to a flap lever, so they are out or in, determined by the pilot. If I was to build something like that I think I'd have the Slats deploy anytime the flaps were lowered, so as not to forget them.

 

[courierguy]

Am I the only one to think vg's offer many of the benefits of slats, sort of anyway, with none of the disadvantages?

 

[mvivion]

Am I the only one to think vg's offer many of the benefits of slats, sort of anyway, with none of the disadvantages?

Yes.

MTV

 

[Flyboy8]

Welcome to the SC.org forum, Flyboy8.

Slats and/or slots can be great things depending on your mission. Slats tend to extract a speed penalty at cruise and slots tend to be heavy. Both work well at high AOA and do seem to add a safety factor.

Experimental Cubs may have awesome quality or "not so much". It depends on the builder. Also the quality of the paint job is not always indicative of the quality of the rest of the build. I have seen some wonderful paint jobs but what was under the paint was a trainwreck. I have seen some paint jobs that looked like they were done with a latex house paint roller but the structure and all that really mattered was great. The Buyer Beware" sign applies to all aircraft but perhaps more so to experimentals.

There is a lot more flexibility to modify and tweak an experimental. You can do your own maintenance if you are so inclined. Be sure you get a knowledgeable guy, like Sean Tubbs, from Caldwell Idaho to help you with a pre-buy inspection.

Best of luck

Bill

There is a cub for sale locally, it's also posted on this site, I when to look at yesterday. It is a well documented build and the build quality is amazing, dare I say perfect. The down side is the historical character of the build, mainly the paint scheme. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, which can easily be added, but that comes with extra cost. On the hand there is a sq-3 in Florida that has all the goodies but I have no clue who built it and the quality of work. On the outside everything looks great but who knows without pulling things apart what the inside looks like. Granted I have only seen pictures. If time wasn't a factor I would have Don Chapton, who built the local cub, build one from for me.

Is it simple to do an quality inspection on a cub without to much effort? I definitely want to have someone who is trusted do an inspection but having to send them across the country might be difficult.

 

[bob turner]

I have not flown slats or slots in a Cub - have some time in the Helio, and am dying to fly the Dakota slots. The Stinson slots just gave the ailerons more authority, and it did a really nice roll.

I have flown the 180 Cub with big tires, and would opt for a nice stock 160 HP any day in the week over that heavy aircraft. It all depends on what you want and what you will use it for. I am sure the heavily modded 180 Cub is better for bush flying with a load, but just for fun the stock lightweights cannot be beat. Opinion.

 

[stewartb]

The safety advantage of Slats is second to none. I can't speak to Slots having never flown a plane with them. On my SQ2, any time the wings are generating lift, the Slats are deployed. They do so automatically so how far they deploy depends on the wing's angle of attack. They do add drag, although I can't speak to how much.

I have friends who, on "across the country" flights, have pinned the Slats closed by simply drilling a hole in appropriate hinge points and installing cotter pins. I would exercise caution here because doing so removes the safety aspect of Slats and you need to remember that throughout the flight.

I recall a flight made a couple of years ago, I think from Colorado to Idaho, where the pilot pinned his Slats (not a SQ) and enroute crashed killing himself and his passenger. I have no idea what happened but I recall thinking at the time that perhaps he spun it in due to flying the plane in a profile he was used to-but required Slats to be done safely. Again, don't know the actual cause.

Backcountry Supercub is working on Slats that can be manually deployed with a lever similar to a flap lever, so they are out or in, determined by the pilot. If I was to build something like that I think I'd have the Slats deploy anytime the flaps were lowered, so as not to forget them.

It's a wonder that your 185 makes it from point A to point B without crashing. Yikes!!!

 

[OLDCROWE]

It's a wonder that your 185 makes it from point A to point B without crashing. Yikes!!!

OK now that I got the Diet Coke cleaned off my monitor, "that's funny right thar!":smile:

 

[Barnstormer]

It's a wonder that your 185 makes it from point A to point B without crashing. Yikes!!!

The Sportsman STOL and WingX I added are SIC! Different flying bird. Now I just need to add Slats!


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[Barnstormer]

The point I was trying to make, but apparently failed, is if you fly a slated cub and then fly one without you'd better pay attention cause it will bite you if you forget and try to do something you can getaway with with Slats, but can't without.


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[68Papa]

The point I was trying to make, but apparently failed, is if you fly a slated cub and then fly one without you'd better pay attention cause it will bite you if you forget and try to do something you can getaway with with Slats, but can't without.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with this. Everybody always asks me how I like my slats. Before I tell them that I love them, I almost always say, they've made me a lazy, dangerous pilot. I can do things in my experimental that I could never do in my old A model. Final approach speeds are amazing. Add a little wind straight down the pipe and she hovers. Add a lot of wind and you can take a nap on final. I really would have to rethink a few things if I were to hop back in a stock cub.

 

[stewartb]

RD,

What's it like into a narrow strip with a crosswind and mechanical turbulence?

SB

 

[68Papa]

SB,

The Cub is rock solid. It just handles extremely well. When the air is rough and you're close to the ground, the Cub gets pushed around as any other would - I still have to fly it all the way to the tie down, but I haven't noticed any adverse differences in those circumstances from a stock Cub. It shines in the mountains, flying in high, tight places I have no business flying. It will climb like a home sick angel and will turn on a dime! Don't ask me what the stall speed is - I'm not sure. Keep a little power in it, pull back on the stick until your arm gets tired and the airspeed on the Dynon goes blank. When it does break, it's so subtle and straight ahead, then it starts flying again. I feel like I'm cheating! Slats or no slats, the Cub is as good as they get, at least that's what I'm told by folks who know Cubs far better than I do.

RD

 

[stewartb]

I'm a bit of a skeptic. For me doing the normal cabin thing there were days I couldn't take the -12 into the strip. I'd come back and grab the 180 and drop it right in. Sometimes a heavier airplane is nice to have. If the FAA or Congress could settle the medical reform issue I could decide on my next Cub. It looks like I'll be driving the Cessna for a while as it stands now. Have fun getting in sheep shape.

SB

 

[courierguy]

Yes.

MTV

More detail MTV ? Am I way off base here? Maybe I should have said "less disadvantages" not "none". I did say "sort of". I mean, they both offer enhanced much flyability (?!) at high AOA, keeping the flow attached better, and lower stall speeds. I'm not saying VG's are equal to what slats can do, just maybe a poor man's version, and a lot simpler to retro maybe. And one that may not not need a lot of horsepower to fully utilize. It seems like most slatted planes are relative high horse also. Also, many that put slats on as a mod, follow it up by adding more power.

 

[WanaBNACub]

I have not flown a slatted plane yet, but I had an opportunity to take this beautiful bird up on a recent trip home to South Dakota at Dakota Cub's shop. I am definitely sold. Brian took me up in it first, put it in a stall and whipped it around left and right and no matter what he did he could not put it in a spin. Then I got to fly it for a while and did some slow flight. My cub is around 38mph in the stall and I can maintain level flight at 39-40. In that cub I was able to fly level at 30 and it stalled around 28. And when it did stall the tail dropped out first and then it fell like a leaf. Pretty cool plane and wing. If and when I ever do any upgrades to my plane I am going to look more into the slotted wing. That is unless I get bit much harder and build a slatted experimental!

 

[eskimo77]

How about a set of slats on a dakota slotted wing? Does anybody have that much money?

 

[brown bear]

Slats do not have to have a big speed penalty , look at the Helio Courier , at one time it was said to have been the worlds fastest 4 place fixed gear single engine aircraft. But when putting slats on a cub most take the same view as when talking about covered gear " its not suppose to go fast "
Doug

 

[bob turner]

At one time it was said that a Maule cruised at 160 mph.

I am not a Helio expert, but my impression is that a helio can lift a good load, fly and land very slow, drives like a truck without any power steering, and definitely does not go very fast. I believe a 182 would walk away from a Helio. Admittedly, all my Helio time is in the pattern, so what do I know.

If I were wealthy I would have a set of Dakota slotted wings for my otherwise stock 160 Cub with those beautiful military windows. Nice looking aircraft!