Which Plane?

[lab man]

Hey guys,
Although I have been on this site from time to time as a guest, this is my first post. I'm quickly nearing the end of my career as a student, and I'm looking towards the purchase of an aircraft in the next year or so. I intend to use a friends plane this summer in order to get my pilots license, but I could use some advice on a few planes I have in mind.

I'll be spending my time in Alaska where I hunt, fish, and explore the backcountry at every opportunity. I've been talking to a few people about possible aircraft choices, and I do quite a bit of internet research, but that will only get me so far. So I wanted to come on here and see if I could get some real life advice.

The four types of planes that I find myself looking at the most often are a PA-12 with a 160 horse, an Arctic Tern, a Cessna 170 with a 180 horse, and a Cessna 150 taildragger with a 150 horse. The C150 would be the cheapest, but everything else being the same, what do you guys think about these options? Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
-Eric

 

[aktango58]

Here we go again...

Many posts on the first plane.

If you are going to learn off airport work, buy cheap and light. Champ type, t-craft, j-3, PA-11

I would stay away from the c-150, many reasons, but if you can afford the others...

You will be doing lots of repairs, just the nature of the work you are describing.

I believe you should learn to fly with smaller horse power and learn to use the wind, wing and rudder. Then you can build up into the bigger hp and really fly. Any of my mentioned birds will take off and perform well when light. my old 90 hp champ would go everywhere I have taken my cub down here, just not with a load.

Many discussions on the different birds...

(disclaimer: Data is not acceptable without a Thrustline in a Downwind turn)

 

[lab man]

I'll be flying a t-craft for the next year. After that, I would like to move on to something with better performance. When I search for information regarding the planes I mentioned in my first post, I get a million results to wade through that don't answer my questions. That's why I thought it would be wise to ask my question directly.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[King Brown]

T-craft is good for learning skills to fly properly. I went straight to a Cessna 180 without any problems. You're in one of the best places in the world for advice on aircraft. Keep your ears open and don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

[narrow deck]

Stay away from a C-150. If your budget will allow and your considering a PA-12-160/C-170 180 you might as well look into a good light weight 160 Super Cub, unless you need the room for the family. Not sure about parts availability for the Arctic Tern....

 

[Trapperty]

You don't like PA-18's? You should explain your mission with a little more detail. How many people are you going to be hauling around most of the time? What is you price range and how much money do you want to spend after you buy the plane? There is no such thing as a cheap plane, you pay now or pay later in maintenance. Don't get to hung up on the perfect plane for all your tasks just get a good one that has been taken care and won't nickle and dime you. I have a 150 PA-12 and it works for what I do. The extra space is nice and it gets in and out of anywhere I want to go. It is slow like all cubs are but that is about the only thing I don't like about it. I had a Citabria 7GCBC for my first plane and still miss it when I'm cruising 80mph in the 12 and burning the same amount of fuel as the Citabria that would do 115mph easy.

 

[lab man]

It's not that I don't like Super Cubs, but I haven't seen many that I like for much less than 120 thousand. From what I've seen so far, I think I can pick up a nice PA-12, 170/180, or Tern for less than 70 grand. I don't have a family or anyone else that I need to haul around on a regular basis, but I wouldn't mind having a four seat aircraft. I would definitely consider picking up a plane like a Pacer, but from what I've heard the 170 with an 0-360 performs pretty well. I also liked the extra speed of the 170 and tern. I think a two-seater would work just fine though.

I would like a plane with a reasonable useful load that I can use to hunt moose, caribou, sheep, goats, bear, waterfowl, etc., that I can put on skis in the winter for small game and predator hunting, and would still do well on floats if I decide I want to go that route. The PA-12, 170, and Tern seemed like planes that would just about fit this bill without forcing me to spend over 100 thousand. To me, there's a big difference between 70 grand, and over 100. Basically, I want a plane that does it all wthout spending very much.

 

[Douten]

I would suggest that if you are really good friends and want to stay that way to buy your own airplane now and learn to fly it to its maximum potential. There has been many friendships ruined by good intentions (letting someone use your plane to end up with a pile of scrap) :evil:. Sh1t happens and even if you fix the plane the plane and the friendship will never be the same.

 

[Bushwhacker Air]

My 1st plane was T-Cart - it taught me how to fly. My Cub taught me how to have the most fun flying! There's something about that centerline, tandem flying that just can't be felt in a four-seater or side-by-side. It's like the plane becomes an extension of you. I never felt that in the T-cart, C-150, or any other plane but a Cub/Supercub.

I thought I wanted a 4-seater, too, but the reality is, most of the time, you're flying solo.

Sounds like a Supercub would fit the bill, but don't want to spend $100K?? The market is still soft, and there are plenty in that $70K range in Barnstormers. Buy one of those, grow with it and make it your own in the future with whatever goodies you want. Their performance can't be beat - it's no secret why 1/3rd of the PA-18's in the USA are in Alaska!

 

[King Brown]

lab man, the worst thing is having money in your pocket when you're looking for an aircraft---or anything, I guess. The advice above is good: there are SCs in your range that won't nickel-and-dime you. The trick is to let everyone know that you're looking for a decent SC, keep looking yourself and you'll find the money when the right one comes along. People like to help; comments here are proof. Steer clear of orphans; parts availability is a serious factor. For pure joy, strapping on a SC is it. Best of luck.

 

[tempdoug]

I dont know which part of alaska you will be in but my first thought, and how it worked for me is, I would first of all being your young is find a extra part time job. Places like, for example, Dans Aircraft, Airframes Alaska, Stoddards or anyone. They would have to hire me, if not anything just for sweeping floors, because i would be just like my cat or dog, just be there until they let you in. They will feed you after that. Especially if you (must)prove your value. If your in no rush, learn from these guys. Then make your move. If planes are your interest go for it. Even some charter place, polish there plane once a week and work at Buffalo Wild Wings a couple nights a week.

 

[skywagon8a]

In addition to what tempdoug says, You will be in position to be the first to hear of a good deal that will fill your requirements. Just keep your eyes and ears open. Something will show up that you did not expect just because you were there.

 

[sburg58]

I am at the opposite end of the career thing, retired for a few years. I have owned several planes and flew in the military for 30 years. About three years ago a friend took me flying in his J3. I must say I agree with Bushwacker, center line flying low and slow coupled with landing on off airport sites, is one of the most fun flying I have done in years. Closest thing how I think a bird must feel! So fun I am now finishing up a PA18 replica.

 

[aktango58]

again, learn in a lower power plane. It will teach you to fly. Then move to more power.

Those of you that think I am full of it, (the others know it8)), just hop in a 65 hp j-3 and see how you do on takeoff...

my bet is many of us would not stay on the centerline the first run

 

[StewartB]

After the purchase you'll have maintenance costs, insurance, and every one of us is on the clock for an engine rebuild. Sometimes we just get one of those broken rod/hole in the case/$25K surprises out of nowhere, too. Buy the best plane you can afford. Consider the after purchase expenses when making your decision. Owning an airplane that you can't afford to fix or fly isn't very gratifying.

Very few first time buyers find the perfect long-term plane. Odds are you'll sell your first plane after a few years. Buying one that will provide you a few hundred hours of flying and will be easy to sell later is a good plan. After a few hundred hours you'll know what you what and where to get it.

Stewart

 

[lab man]

Thanks for all the replies! I really appreciate it. I've already looked into getting borrowers insurance for the t-craft I want to fly. There's no way I would hang a friend out to dry on something like that. I'm getting close to returning to Alaska and starting a career, so a part time job in a hanger probably isn't going to pan out, but that sounds like excellent advice. I have a buddy who does exactly that, and the experience has been very beneficial for him.

So maybe I'll just look harder for a PA-18 that will fit the bill. I have some time before I'll be in a position to buy one, but I wanted to get started looking early to really find out what the best plane for me will be.