Sun n Fun BS

[cubdriver2]

Talked to my brother yesterday and he was out flying in Ga and met up with the Pietenpol guy's who's planes got damaged at Sun n Fun last year. One of them told him that Sun n Fun sent him 2 bills, one for $6600.00 for enviormental clean up and one for $1800.00 to move his damaged plane and his was hardly damaged BEFORE they helped him. So you might want to think twice before you go to Sun n Screw next year.

Glenn

 

[tempdoug]

What did the enviormental cleanup consist of?

 

[Dan Gervae]

I would not pay. That's complete BS.....if this is covered by insurance by chance...then it is a scam by the SNF people to milk more out of the aircraft owners who are their bread and butter. That's real good for aviation SNF....Nice Job! wow.

 

[Bill Ingerson]

I would make some phone calls to other owners of damaged planes and see if they were also charged. If he had several phone calls to come remove and clean up the area of the damaged plane and did not take care of it then its probably his fault. Can't picture the clean up of spilled oil would cost that much unless a track hoe dug up the ground and loaded it in a dump truck and hauled it out of state. The fuel would have evaporated. Sound like someone needs to investigate this one.

Bill

 

[Richgj3]

I have flown in to both OSH and SNF many times. Never again, for many reasons too numerous to go into but it all boils down to the fact that airplane owners who fly in at don't seem to count anymore. SJ is the place to be.

Rich

 

[Jeffrey Flinn]

Check this out...................
http://www.aopa.org/aopalive/?watch=ttYnZjMjo4dW7_E15H63ZbYk8yNSXs88
At around the 2:50 mark John Burton (SNF President) explains that they were in a BIG hurry to get everything cleaned up for the next days events. I'm sure time played into it unfortunately.
If you flew down there and had an upsidedown rig at the end of the day it's not like you have a whole lot of choices to get things cleaned up......I feel for the guys who suffered a loss with little means to take care of it for the next days events.....Thought that all of us in the Aviation community would work together.

 

[Steve Pierce]

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/sun-n-fun-tornado-bills-stir-angerI would have been some kind of upset if they had moved my airplane. There was a pile of wreckage that they moved that evening after they threw everyone off the premises. Looked like they just grabbed them with a forklift and piled them up. Luckily we were there at first light and got Dakota Cubs Super 18 flipped over, disassembled and off location in a few hours. I am pretty certain S&F would have torn up more than the tornado already did had they moved it with their forklifts.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Check this out...................
http://www.aopa.org/aopalive/?watch=ttYnZjMjo4dW7_E15H63ZbYk8yNSXs88
At around the 2:50 mark John Burton (SNF President) explains that they were in a BIG hurry to get everything cleaned up for the next days events. I'm sure time played into it unfortunately.
If you flew down there and had an upsidedown rig at the end of the day it's not like you have a whole lot of choices to get things cleaned up......I feel for the guys who suffered a loss with little means to take care of it for the next days events.....Thought that all of us in the Aviation community would work together.

It was frustrating because they threw everyone out. The Dakota Cub crew looked like drowned rats after holding the airplanes down to deter more damage. They couldn't even stay in their camper on the premises and had to find a room. We were not allowed to check on our planes since we had spent the morning at Kissimmee. I did anyway after going over a blown down fence. One thing I have seen with aviation people over the years, they will all pitch in and help but S&F in my opinion was unreceptive. We had a great crew from Legend and other friends work together and had the airplane out in two hours or less. Only jerk was the jet display nxt door that thought we were gonna hurt his plane when we flipped the Super 18 over.

 

[tempdoug]

Ya but $8400, still must be missing something. I could see $500, but, were they professionals.

 

[Amy]

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/sun-n-fun-tornado-bills-stir-anger

I would have been some kind of upset if they had moved my airplane. There was a pile of wreckage that they moved that evening after they threw everyone off the premises. Looked like they just grabbed them with a forklift and piled them up. Luckily we were there at first light and got Dakota Cubs Super 18 flipped over, disassembled and off location in a few hours. I am pretty certain S&F would have torn up more than the tornado already did had they moved it with their forklifts.
View attachment 4409 View attachment 4410 View attachment 4411

Well there's a great memory . . . Anyways, the airplanes were moved the same day and into the evening. If you drove in the next day, you would have seen the makeshift boneyard on the way in. It was part of the reason it took so long to get in--seems like everybody came to look at wrecked airplanes, unfortunately.

Not 100% sure why they didn't move us that night but it seems like they didn't bother the exhibitors as much as the folks who flew in for fun. We did tie the airplane down (upside-down) just in case so maybe that sent a clear message that we'd rather handle it ourselves. Everyone was certainly on edge and it's not an experience I would like to repeat

 

[Steve Pierce]

A few years ago a Cirrus went off the taxiway at S&F. There were more people in white suits, fire gear etc than you could count. Took a crane, firetrucks and about 4 hours to get it out of the ditch. I coulda had it out in 30 minutes with a tractor and a few 2x8s. Go figure.

 

[Charlie Aileron]

None of this surprises me. After my treatment in 2010 I swore I would never return to spend another dollar at SnF. Their attitude is so arrogant it is beyond belief. They don't realize the concept that if they don't have pilots and their airplanes they don't have a fly-in. It seems they only want to cater to the larger vendors and have no respect for the little guy who comes to spend his hard earned money at the vendors. I for one am one they don't have ever again. Maybe when all they have is vendors and no pilots to do any purchasing they will wake up!

 

[Jeffrey Flinn]

Ya but $8400, still must be missing something. I could see $500, but, were they professionals.

I don't get it either??? However, I would sit and listen to the justification of such a dollar amount for amusement porposes!

 

[Superchub]

I love going to these events but it is obvious that they care about there vendors first. Take Oshkosh for example. If you don't fly in and come through the main gate you must go through a 1/2 + mile of vendors to get to the experimental aircraft!! (EAA) This sound like total BS and If they tried to kick me out away from my airplane it would have to be in a police car in cuffs.

Brandon

 

[OLDCROWE]

I love going to these events but it is obvious that they care about there vendors first. Take Oshkosh for example. If you don't fly in and come through the main gate you must go through a 1/2 + mile of vendors to get to the experimental aircraft!! (EAA) This sound like total BS and If they tried to kick me out away from my airplane it would have to be in a police car in cuffs.

Brandon

If you don't like going past the vendors at OSH try an event without them but get ready for astronomical admission costs!

 

[Wingwrench]

Many changes happening at SnF, they are aware of problems and are working to get back on track. I would urge anyone with an issue to contact them directly.

 

[King Brown]

Talking and writing isn't effective. Resource and social development, activism, is a big part of my day job. Give SnF a rest for a year. Only then will the nabobs take notice. From what I've read here, I wouldn't attend on principle. SnF needs me more than I need it.

 

[Anne]

SnF is a business. It's not EAA, it's not about aviation, nor is it about pilots (and how much money we spend). For all those guys care, it could be a tractor show. Oshkosh has turned into a big business too, and it's not as much fun as it used to be (but it is a great place to get those aviation goodies!).

 

[tempdoug]

Ya but $8400, thats saying please dont come to our event and take that chance.

 

[tempdoug]

Glen, you should try to get the guy that this happened to, to post on here to save a lot of speculation. Mainly just to forewarn unsuspecting people. If this is what it costed him.

 

[tempdoug]

But, you know guys with a plane upside down with a battery and some gas in them, there is some very serious issues. With a person inside i would take my chance to get them out but with noone why risk a accident. Wasnt there firsthand but sure hope the show goes on. Steve i know we could get it done but why take the chance? Lots of things to look at i guess to avoid the almighty lawsuit. But $8400, whats going to happen if you only have $500, not many banks going to give me any cash for enviorment cleanup. And it could be the same thing if my car was at a Twins baseball game or at a church picnic at the state park at the lake. And something flipped it over.

 

[Richgj3]

"If you don't like going past the vendors at OSH try an event without them but get ready for astronomical admission costs!"


SNF and OSH are not fly ins. They are trade shows with air shows attached. Free air shows that the performers do gratis but that the event charges real money for. They already have astronomical admission costs.

They are a waste of money for the vendors that show up in this economy, but nobody wants to be conspicuous by their abscense.

Go to Sentimental Journey. It's for the pilots and the planes.

Rich

 

[cubdriver2]

"If you don't like going past the vendors at OSH try an event without them but get ready for astronomical admission costs!"


SNF and OSH are not fly ins. They are trade shows with air shows attached. Free air shows that the performers do gratis but that the event charges real money for. They already have astronomical admission costs.

They are a waste of money for the vendors that show up in this economy, but nobody wants to be conspicuous by their abscense.

Go to Sentimental Journey. It's for the pilots and the planes.

Rich

MAKE PLANS NOW FOR:
June 20-23rd, 2012: The 27th Annual Sentimental Journey to Cub Haven Fly-In - "Celebrating the Platinum Jubilee of the Piper J-3", ( the 75th birthday ). Featured planes will be the J-3, L-4 and the PA-16 Clipper. Let's all turn out to celebrate and `` Kiss the ground the Piper J-3 was built on.'' We want to see a beautiful field of yellow, just like the Good Ole Days.

​

 

[8GCBC]

I would not even wipe my butt with that bill. Total idiots praying on the weak. Thank you for reconfirming their deranged motives.

 

[Beach Bum]

I had a bad run-in with one of the cops on a motorcycle. Had a minor issue involving not using the correct gate to get in and the cop was talking to us like we just bailed from a car chase. Pissed us off so much we left a day early. Called the next day to file a complaint but didn't have his name and the Sargent said, " I'd ask all the cops there to find out who it was but they'll lie when they know a complaint is coming their way". Understand, I'm supportive of police officers... I used to be one but this guy was an AH.

Won't ever go back to Oshkosh...had major hassles we the orange shirts every time.

Maybe it's me? Lol

 

[DesperadoPilot]

Thank you for reminding me why I don't go to SNF anymore. Seems like they get worse and worse every year. First time I went there it was an somewhat of an adventure. Last time I went there it was more of a parasitic drag.

 

[Treetop_Flyer]

Never been to SNF, but I can comment on my personal Oshkosh experience. I've attended Oshkosh 5 or 6 times in the past 15 years. Additionally, I've flown into Oshkosh twice with a friend, once in 2008 and then again this year, 2011. Both times flying in the staff on the ground was more than helpful with getting us in and out of our camping spot. Additionally, both times they went out of their way to find us a nice parking spot and make sure that we had everything we needed once shut down. I can't say I have ever had a bad experience at Oshkosh (aside from the occasional brutal heat). Everybody I have met there has been friendly and more than welcoming. Overall, an excellent experience. I will certainly continue to go to Oshkosh as much as time/budget allow.

 

[mvivion]

Ditto to Treetop Flyer's comments about OSH. I have never had a bad experience there, though I know others who have. Year before last was "Sploshkosh" and I arrived before they could park airplanes on the grass. The volunteers cheerfully ferried me back and forth to my plane three or four times with a golf cart (plane was tied down alongside the main taxiway near the approach end of 36) carting all my camping junk to a good parking spot and helped me set up my camp. Then they let me know I could move the plane a couple days later, and hauled me down there in a golf cart again. Bear in mind that this was TOTAL chaos, and the field was closed right after I arrived, or maybe before.....

And, everyone kept their cool, and made it work.

I'll go back as often as I'm able.

As to S n F, I attended (didn't fly in) nine or ten times, and never had a bad experience there either. And, it was always a fun event USUALLY with much better weather than at OSH.

As to the bills for remediation and recovery, there were some articles about this on AvWeb when this first started hitting the fan. I believe the point was that S n F management was trying to recover costs not covered by THEIR insurance, and presumably covered by the aircraft owners insurance. Nevertheless, it sure seems to me to have been a REALLY dumb move on their part.

Too bad, because I've always enjoyed that event.

MTV

 

[C-90 Cub]

If you don't like going past the vendors at OSH try an event without them but get ready for astronomical admission costs!

I don't see how they CAN charge any more than they already do and expect anyone to show up. Don't get me wrong I love the gathering of airplanes at Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh...........all of them. I also enjoy talking to the vendors. It's why I used to go. But I too have quit going. it's a huge expense just flying there and back home. But the feeling of being raped on everything from the food, camping, admission price, etc. while you are there has just become to much. I think the people flying in should get a break on things. They are the ones providing the enterainment at their own expense already. Then pay through the nose for everything while you are there.

Steve

 

[sj]

I've never been to SNF, and now I am in even less of a hurry.

sj