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Slipping Through Turns

39-J3

39-J3

FRIEND
Maine
At my last BFR while on my base leg approach to land I was a little high so I dropped left my left wing and added opposite rudder to slip it through my base leg and onto final. When I started turning final and didn’t come out of the slip my CFI got all nervous and told me that you should never slip through a turn. He told me that it is possible to stall the low wing and spiral in. Before I entered my slip I did set pitch attitude and airspeed to desired airspeed and didn’t change my pitch attitude through the turn and the winds were light that day. What are your thoughts on slipping through a turn?

Larry
 
Ask him to demonstrate his theory at altitude and you'll get to watch him retract his opinion. I do and teach it all the time, and if you were able to get it to stall that way the HIGH wing will drop, will give plenty of warning and also roll you through wings-level giving you the advantage of a recovery with minimal, if any, altitude loss.
 
citabrickr said:
Ask him to demonstrate his theory at altitude and you'll get to watch him retract his opinion. I do and teach it all the time, and if you were able to get it to stall that way the HIGH wing will drop, will give plenty of warning and also roll you through wings-level giving you the advantage of a recovery with minimal, if any, altitude loss.
Click to expand...

Thanks John,
That makes sense to me and takes out some of the unknown in the back of my mind. I actually do plan on taking some lessons with you guys this summer. I also need to work on my cross wind landings so I hope it is windy on the day of my lesson.

Larry
 
Young inexperienced time building instructor?

If you say yes, then you know the answer.

How many hours does that instructor have in birds without flaps?
 
If you think about it, a spin involves yaw and roll coupled in the same direction, correct? A roll to the left, coupled with a yaw to the left CAN be a spin (it can also be a spiral, but....).

A SLIP, by contrast, is specifically yaw OPPOSITE the roll, hence a slip involves ANTI spin control inputs.

Now, that's not to say that you can't spin out of a slip, because talent and perseverance can overcome everything except physics. But, a slip, managed properly (as in safe AOA and speed) is inherently anti spin.

Again, it's possible to lose control of an airplane from any configuration, but the slip is a very safe and useful maneuver, turning or straight ahead.

A skid on the other hand, is NOT so good.

MTV
 
I do it all the time with no problems at all. It looks good from observing a high, short, tight pattern on the ground and the seat of your pants will tell you that it feels good when done properly. This is how old school instructors, who taught what rudders were for, used to instruct. In my opinion, that instuctor has not flown many flap-less airplanes or airplanes with limited forward visibility such as Travel Air, Waco, Stearman, etc.
 
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A slipping turn to final is an excellent tool to have in your tool box. It is certainly not unsafe.

Bill
 
OldYellow said:
Any comments on slipping a PA-18 with full flaps extended? Gary
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I do it all the time, with stock wings, stock flaps and VGs. I do get a slight irregular pulsation in the stick, but nothing that affects controllability. It is quicker to enter a slip than to add flaps, especially if you need just a little steeper glideslope. But if you really need a lot of down, then both together is required. Go arounds aren't always an option. And, its better to practice full flap slips when you don't need them than try it for the first time when you do.
 
I too teach and often use a base to final slip / turn. One thing that is nice about it if you do it right, the passengers don't know you are slipping as you enter it during the final turn, it feels really natural to them. Full flaps no problem in any 18 I've ever flown - ok, except one with those drooping ailerons in a big crosswind... I did not care for that :)

sj
 
i was flying with one of our instructors on a "test flight" and slipped the 172 and he freaked out, and said you never slip a 172, but couldn't tell me why, he just said don't do it. i asked maybe because with full flaps it blankets the tail and may cause a buffer, which might be thought as a wing stall? he had no answer. Also he was a low time cfi, just out of school. Maybe they teach the same thing as in A&P school when they wouldn't teach me fabric covering because "you will never work on a fabric covered plane in your life"

Tom
 
I love slips, you guy's are spoiled in the front seat, hop rides in a Stearman at a busy airport and you'll full slip from downwind till just before the low wing get's grass stains on it because it's the only safe way to see all the way to touchdown. A good way to play and see what you can get away with is to go up some day in a safe area and use the edge of a cloud as the ground and after a while you'll feel at home, low wing into the wind, top side rudder to the floor and the stick back and all the way over till you start to feel it unload and you'll discover that all it takes is relaxing a 1/4" of back stick and it's flying again but if you hang it out too long it won't spin but it will fall out of the slip and if you relax it will fly again after it falls 10 or 20' so go play with the clouds till it becomes second nature and DON'T look at the ASI that's way off at that attitude. Works for me your milage may vary.

Glenn
 
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39-J3 said:
At my last BFR while on my base leg approach to land I was a little high so I dropped left my left wing and added opposite rudder to slip it through my base leg and onto final. When I started turning final and didn’t come out of the slip my CFI got all nervous and told me that you should never slip through a turn. He told me that it is possible to stall the low wing and spiral in. Before I entered my slip I did set pitch attitude and airspeed to desired airspeed and didn’t change my pitch attitude through the turn and the winds were light that day. What are your thoughts on slipping through a turn?

Larry
Click to expand...

The issue is a result of there being no "slip" button in the new glass cockpit flying computers. If it can't be done by pushing a button, then it either can't be done, or if done, must be recklessly unsafe, since if god had wanted men to slip, he would have written code for it. Or had Garmin write the code.
 
I sometimes start slipping on downwind also and continue to the roundout.A friend did it in a Citabria with an FAA examiner in the back.Her response "I didn't know you could do that".
If you have not seen this it is worth watching http://vimeo.com/7479092

Bill
 
Glenn,

do I read that as an offer for a ride in a Stearman???

Pushhard: You might have something there!

Tom, if I remember correctly, the 172 has a blurb in the book about slipping with flaps. I don't recall if that is full flaps, or more than 20 degrees, but there is a little flicker of memory from my instructing days.

But again, seems the common thread is that the newer the pilot training, the less likely one has training in slips, spins, step-turns or any other actual control manuver...
 
I have slipped a 172 on floats with 40 degrees of flap and experienced pretty violent elevator flutter.Not a fun feeling having the yoke rapidly move in and out.Never had a problem at thirty degrees.I remember someone posting of a sudden pitch down as if the stabilizer/elevator stalled.

Bill
 
Bill, the only thing you ever slipped was on the ice. I only saw you once with an airplane, and that was 5 years ago:lol:
 
The pilots operating handbook for the 172 specifically says no slips w full flaps if memory serves.....that's all an instructor needs to say and he's right all day long.......the poh doesn't give reasons for its limitations......they are to be obeyed like any other limitation listed in it.
 
I used to slip the 747 when necessary.....until I got a call from the Chief Pilot.
Like Bill Rusk said, nice to have when needed.

Lou
 
I say slip those babies. Just don't get too slow. Stalls and uncordination (sp?) hurt. I too teach it all the time. The 172 thing can be a little different as they are pretty nose heavy with two pilots in the front and full flaps. The plane slows pretty quick and if your gawking out the window it (stall) could sneak up. Otherwise if it has wings, I think I'v slipped it. Dc-6's have the problem of cracking around the last stringer if you let it snap out. DC-3 can rudderlock a little but everything under that is pretty doable. Har.
 
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