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Landing on snow

BritishCubBloke

BritishCubBloke

SPONSOR
Bellingen, NSW, Australia
There is about 6 inches of snow here and I want to go and land on some of my usual fields. Apart from the fact that it will be slippery is there anything I need to be aware of? I am on wheels, obviously.

BCB
 
Nothing to it,go have fun.You will skid around some turning.Just get readdy to pull the stick back and control your power .Upon landing i like pulling the power holding the elevator back and skidding .
 
Landing on six inches of snow will not be slippery, it will give you lots of drag. Put some weight in the aft baggage or have a pax in the rear seat to keep you from nosing over. Make a tail low wheel landing and do not push the stick forward as you touch down. Be ready to go around if you feel lots of drag as you touch down. (It makes differance if the snow is wet, dry, or crusty but all will give lots of drag)

Steven
 
OK, chaps, very useful, thank-you. Glad I asked! I was getting worried about going into my thousand foot field because I might skid. I will try one of the longer fields first where there is more margin anyway.

Cheers,

David
 
BCB,

The answer to your question really relates to several variables:

First, and foremost is what is the consistency of the snow? How fresh, is it light and fluffy, is there a crust, etc. Six inches of light, fluffy snow is a piece of cake. Six inches of heavily settled, slushy stuff is going to have so much drag that you may not be able to take off again, depending on.....

Good advice on getting some weight in the back. You will have a tendency to nose over in sloppy snow.

Secondly, what kind of tires? Bigger tires may or may not be a benefit, depending again on the consistency of the snow.

I think you'll find that the takeoff run is going to be the challenge, rather than the landing, but keep that stick back at touchdown.

MTV
 
My advice- for what its worth... Be damn carefull!

Much more than 6 inches can 'chock' your wheels on landing. I saw it recently when we had a snow fall and several 'enthusiasts' went out to play. more than one ended upside down.

I had a friend drive up and down the field to pack a strip down to land on. worked a treat.

Binty
 
Just have fun,beleive me they fly all over the world off snow with wheels.Yes if it gets too deep or crusty you will need skis.If you got enough horsepower you could lock the brakes and still take off.I flew today on wheels in about 5 inches of snow,piece of cake.
 
snow

I agree with Binty. I have come closer to going over playing in snow on wheels than just about anything. Last winter I had made about 15 landings in snow and with each landing I was gaining about 25-35lbs in the baggage or on the strut. I was on 30" airstreaks and the snow was 5-8" deep well I needed to land and pickup about 90Lbs in this one spot on a nice big flat and when I touched down it sucked me in and the tail came WAY up. Full power and playing with the flaps and I got out of it but just barely. Needless to say the next day the 3000s were on.
I would also land with as little flap as possible if your not sure and be READY to go to full power and full back stick.
Dave
 
BE VERY careful that you don't heat up breaks and then take off immediatly, or shut down for any length of time with snow packed around the discs.....

Things can melt and freeze, making the next landing/takeoff interesting.
 
Mike is right - it all depends on consistency of the snow.

Another thing about heating up and locking brakes, it can also happen easily with wheel penetration skis. A pal with a Husky has made some entertaining landings for us all when he had wheel penetration skis and came home on the tar. :D Do the Husky two-step! Then there's that annoying BANG when they let loose.

brad
 
Thanks for all the advice chaps. I am glad I was ready for giving it some back stick. It was mostly only about 2-3 inches, but I did hit a 6 inch patch at one point and there was a marked forward pitch.

What fun. I have also figured out the cure for pasted on sheep sh*t: granular snow!

Cheers,

David
 
Thirty-five years ago, I was in FE school in Minneapolis with the Air Guard. I was in one of the last radial-engine classes that the Air Force had. I found a J-3 south of town that I could rent reasonably, and took good advantage of it. I was out tooling around, solo one day, and spotted a real pretty grass strip with about 6" of fresh snow on it. Looked like less, so I decided to do a touchy-feely. Even with the old 8.00X4's, and me, solo in the back, I came :yikez: real close to going over. It was probably the closest I ever came to bending an airplane (you know, other than the times I actually did bend the airplane :anon ). Made a big beliver of me that you probably really should have skis or, at least, tundra tires in the snow.
 
I guess i should have not have given a blanket encouragement.I had no idea of your snow conditions in england.I just assumed you were talking about light powder.I assumed if it was crust or slush you would have informed us.Even on wheel skis on sticky snow,my cub has a nose over tendency if the snow is extremely sticky.Sometimes after a no drag takeoff an hour later with the sun beating on the snow and temp rising things change drastically.We just got snow the same day you posted and i assumed it was similar conditions.I am glad you had fun anyways.Do you guys get much snow over there? We get far too much here,I love it after it's cleaned up but it is hell for a day or two with plowing and shoveling.Everything is relevant,people who love the heat usually work in an air conditioned environment and thise who love it when it's snowing usually dont shovel much.P.S. sometimes adding power will keep you from nosing over.I find when landing floats on grass a little power seems to help keeping the nose up,as well extreme drag on sticky snow with skis.
 
We don't get much snow in general, which is why it is such a novelty. However, I live in an upland area (http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/), which has a certain amount of snow lying through much of the winter.

My medium-term plan is to get a pair of hydraulic wheel skis for use in the Alps, but it would be fun to keep them on through the winter here too, possibly.

Anyway, when I first posted the snow was light and powdery, but by the time I landed it had had a thaw refreeze cycle.

Cheers all,

David
 
I came real close to going over. It was probably the closest I ever came to bending an airplane
Click to expand...

I just posted a picture in the member map area, where minutes before it was shot, I was STANDING on the rudder pedals, watching the nose dig in the snow, thinking: Will it go over? Fortunately, I was lucky and got away with it.

Like mvivion had recommended, more weight in the back would probably have prevented the incident or bigger tires. Back then I had the old 25x11x4.

http://www.frappr.com/supercuborgmembers/photo/680318
 
I once tried to taxi through some small 6 inch snow drifts, but every time I hit a bank, the J3 tried to nose over. I talked a friend of mine into riding the rear of the fus bare back until we got out to the runway which was clear. Went great until he fell off and then I went over on my nose and broke a good wood prop. You can't stay on the tail unless you put a saddle on it.
 
Hey Phil, I have landed with the 26" Goodyears up on Scraggly Lake with bare spots and 6" clumps but never in a field with a consistent snow cover. You refer to it as sticky just like when you land the floats on grass. I find this to be extremely abrupt of course do you find the wheels to be more forgiving and have you used a snowmobile or four wheelers to pack down the snow? Thanks John
 
I once landed on Rainbow Lk. in the Talkeetna Mts. with a C185 on skis in about 6" of fluffy snow on ice. I had a load of sledg dogs for the second trip the dogs fit better in the 206 so I went back on wheels (850x6 on all 3 wheels) I was amazed how fast it stopped and I had to taxi around to blow the snow off the ice to get off even with no load. If I was in a taildragger it might have nosed over. be carful.
 
Phil, I think we're pretty lucky with our snow. Mostly powder in our parts of Maine. Down in Southern Maine it's a bit more mushy. I used to fly the 152 in 3-4 inches of snow with no prob, so I guess my 8.5 by 6s will be ok on a little bit of snow until I put the skis on. I'm looking forward to ski flying this winter.
 
All I can say is you're gambling if you didn't take off in the snow you are landing in and know exactly what you're getting into. I've taken the airplane tail high till the check cables of the skis, luckily, stopped anymore rotation.....so wheels can be a really risky business. Yes I've done it in up to 8" of fresh powder over frozen ground at the start of the season...but after that and any melts/freezes etc it's a crap shoot!
 
I took off this morning with 4 inches of dry power snow. I used 50ft more for takeoff. While I was gone the temp. went from the low 20s to the upper 30s. When I landed back here it felt like the brakes were halh way on. I stopped were I normally do with with no brakes. I would be carefull with more than 4 inches of snow if the temp. is above freezing.

Tim
 
David,
Yes, we are fortunate. Our country is great for SC flying.
If you decide to fly over the pond to the NW instead of SE let me know.
Vidir
 
Góðan dag Vidir, (Alright alright I had to cut and paste that first part)

I had the pleasure of being stationed in your country in 1979-80. I was in Hofn. Beautiful country,and EXCELLENT fishing. Maybe some of the best in the world. Everyone should make the trip once. I couldn't even imaging what it would be like flying a super cub on a clear June evening with close to 200 miles visibility.

Steve
 
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