Cubcrafters receives night vfr certification for top cub

[sj]

[h=1]Press Release[/h]CUBCRAFTERS RECEIVES NIGHT VFR CERTIFICATION FOR TOP CUB

Yakima, Washington – March 13, 2013: Light aircraft designer and manufacturer CubCrafters has announced that the FAA has issued Night VFR approval for its CC18-180 Top Cub. CubCrafters’ Top Cub was already an impressively capable and versatile utility aircraft. Boasting a gross weight of 2,300 lbs., a useful load of 1,100 lbs., and class-leading short-field capabilities; the addition of Night VFR expands the Top Cub’s capabilities.

“Until now, the only significant omission from Top Cub’s enviable list of competencies was night flight,” said Jim Richmond, CubCrafters’ CEO. “Now that restriction is gone and new owners can enjoy extended operating hours.”

A number of changes were made to the Top Cub cabin for Night VFR Certification including new backlit placards, instrument illumination, fuel sight gauge lighting, and glare shields are provided. In addition, several interior surfaces are now finished in non-reflective black and modern LED taxi and landing lights have replaced incandescent fixtures. Richmond also notes, “The FAA has raised the bar for Night VFR over the years. Our new certification meets the latest and most rigorous standards set by the FAA with regard to human factors making the Top Cub more convenient and safe for true night operations.”

All new Top Cubs will include the complete Night VFR Lighting Package as standard equipment. “Night VFR Certification will benefit all new Top Cub owners,” Richmond said, “but particularly those pilots based in northern latitudes where daylight hours are reduced much of the year.”

 

[Cajun Joe]

Steve,
Was this night restriction something that applied to recent Top Cubs only?

 

[8GCBC]

I hope there is only a log book entry for the guys that can not?

 

[mvivion]

Nope, I checked. The earlier airplanes have to go back to Yakima to be recertified by CC. Not sure what serial number and back, but ours is a 2004 model, so very early. As soon as I received the email, saw it required flying back to Yakima, I zapped the message. Send an email to CC.

MTV

 

[Cajun Joe]

and Piper Cubs that were refinished by CC??

 

[Iflylower]

Could someone please say what was involved other that position lights and anti collision?

 

[sj]

Steve,
Was this night restriction something that applied to recent Top Cubs only?

Not sure, Joe!

sj

 

[Snert]

People actually spent that kind of money for an airplane that couldn't be flown at night?
Isn't that like buying an airplane that only flys on week days?

 

[mvivion]

and Piper Cubs that were refinished by CC??

Joe, a SUPER CUB (PA18) as opposed to a TOP CUB (CC18-180), is already approved for night VFR under its original type certificate. The CC 18-180 is specifically prohibited from night ops per TC data.

MTV

 

[mvivion]

Could someone please say what was involved other that position lights and anti collision?

The lights are already there on every one. Near as I can tell, it's a paper exercise....that has to be done in YKM. I'm guessing it requires an inspection for conformity by the factory, but that's a guess. And, I'm sure that's not CC's idea.

MTV

 

[mvivion]

Steve,
Was this night restriction something that applied to recent Top Cubs only?

Joe, ALL CC18-180 aircraft have a prohibition on night flight. I'm guessing you have a PA-18, "refurbished" by CC?

MTV

 

[Iflylower]

I expected the lights were on the planes. Now I'm with Snert, why wasn't this paperwork exercise completed initially? Or at least after the first plane or two. Seems like a pretty big limitation. And, now flying the plane back to Yakima, more trouble than getting it done in the first place. There must be more to the story, such as an uncooperative FSDO, or insurance. Experimental forever, even a CC one! Sorry for the for- hire guys.

 

[cubdriver2]

The J3, J4 and pa11 all fly just fine at night :roll:

Glenn

 

[Amy]

I expected the lights were on the planes. Now I'm with Snert, why wasn't this paperwork exercise completed initially? Or at least after the first plane or two. Seems like a pretty big limitation. And, now flying the plane back to Yakima, more trouble than getting it done in the first place. There must be more to the story, such as an uncooperative FSDO, or insurance. Experimental forever, even a CC one! Sorry for the for- hire guys.

I was pretty shocked when I heard it wasn't night legal a whole back . . . Not sure why it was ever neglected during initial certification as it's not that big a deal to my knowledge--at least, the Super 18 had no problem with it. Seems similar aircraft should have similar certification hurdles, but I suppose it could have been an interpretation of the ACO?

 

[8GCBC]

The Chineese like to fly at night, now that there are no more curfews!

(There use to be 21:00 hour curfews in China, everybody had to be inside with lights off, it was amazing to see an entire city go dark, then relight in the morning, it was due to oil shortages!)

 

[Pete D]

Steve,
Was this night restriction something that applied to recent Top Cubs only?

There have been two "batches" of airplanes called Top Cubs. The first set were actually PA18s built by CubCrafters. Approximately 75 airplanes starting in about 1999. The data tag will list CubCrafters as the manufacturer and PA18 as the model. After than run there are about 54 airplanes that are CC18s built under CubCrafter's type certificate. These are the ones that were not night certified. All Top Cubs (CC18-180) S/N 55 and on will be night certified.

In order to satisfy the FAA we had to go to great lengths to make placards and some of the controls lighted while at the same time eliminating any and all reflections of those lights in the windshield and side windows. Not an easy task. The FAA representative would sit in the airplane in complete darkness in the hanger for 10-15 minutes before turning anything on and go from there.

Without a doubt, these are the best lit, least reflective cubs ever built.

 

[8GCBC]

Legacy support?

 

[Cajun Joe]

Joe, ALL CC18-180 aircraft have a prohibition on night flight. I'm guessing you have a PA-18, "refurbished" by CC?

MTV

Mike,
I just read the manual for the new Top Cubs and it seems the problem is the glare put
out by the back lit instuments reflecting off the side windows and windscreen.
To end that some models have an eyebrow visor over the console to end the
reflection in the windscreen and louvered screens over the two forward side windows.

This is covered in the on line manual page 20 chapter 7.

(I think)

Of course the PAs did not have backlit instruments or video monitors but used that
little red light overhead.

I understand CC is now using dimmer switches for night flight for instruments.

(or so I heard .... but then I'm just another dumb coonass who is thankful
I fly a PA18)

Thank you, Mike

Pete, am I close to a fact or two?

 

[randylervold]

A bit more info on the Top Cub night VFR thing for those interested....

CC18-180 Top Cubs have always had the lights required by the FARs for night VFR operation, but formal night VFR approval was indeed skipped when we were granted our type certificate back in 2004. I wasn't here then and so don't recall the exact circumstance, but any Part 23 cert project is a HUGE endeavor with lots of details. Our engineering department/staff in those days was not as robust as it is now and it simply may have been lost in the rush to get the TC.

What brought all this up lately is that we won a bid last year for a contract with the USDI and night VFR was a requirement. So, we went back and made formal application for an amendment to our TC with the FAA for night VFR cert. Seems the FAA has become quite a bit more focused on "human factors" lately due to some high visibility accidents (a frequent driver of rule changes). Fitting backlit switch placards wasn't a big deal (other than their expense, you wouldn't believe it!), the big deal is reflections of instruments in any of the windows.

There are lots of Certified planes flying around with night VFR approval from early days with conditions that would NEVER pass now, not even close, but that's the way Part 23 is... once you get your cert you're good to go forever. Being 2013 we had to pass the latest standards and you just can't believe how stringent they are. FAA inspectors on several occasions came over and sat in a dark hangar with blankets over the top of the cabin for complete darkness. Then they wait 15 minutes for their eyes to adjust, then they turn everything on and look for any reflections whatsoever in any of the windows. If there are any reflections you flunk. We flunked twice. This gave us fits and we tried everything from glareshield extensions to anti-glare glass and such. We finally passed with a combination things including expensive backlit switch placards, a large glareshield extension, glow-in-the-dark paint on the trim indicator, additional lights on many things including the sight gauges, additional dimmable map lights, and some louvers that must be installed in the forward side windows when flying at night.

Someone asked about retrofit -- it would be possible in theory to retrofit the 54 Top Cubs certified before the approval (not including the 75 spare-and-surplus PA-18s sometimes called Top Cubs) but frankly it really wouldn't be cost effective.

In understanding what airplane companies are faced with it is useful to understand that Part 23 Certification keeps changing. Of course the PA-18 was originally certified under CAR 3 standards before they became FARs. Then once Part 23 was put in place it kept getting amended. Therefore any certified aircraft will be certified to Part 23, Amendment "XX". The Top Cub was certified under Amendment 55, the current amendment is 62 and that is what our night VFR cert was granted under.

Most of you guys are flying various Cub derivatives around that probably do have night VFR cert, but it is laughable how quickly your planes would flunk today's standards. Because we waited new Top Cub owners have the satisfaction of flying their planes at night with illumination standards up to the standard of any biz jet, go figure.

So there's the scoop folks, hope that helps answer some questions.

 

[sj]

Wow! Randy, thanks for taking the time to spell all that out.

Is there a college where one can get a degree in professional hoop jumping in order to be able to do this kind of work? :lol:

What a process!

sj

 

[8GCBC]

I ain't no that smart! :lol:

 

[Tim]

And we wonder why new airplanes cost so much

 

[Iflylower]

Thanks for the clarification Randy. CC's predicament is totally justifiable, at least in my mind.


BUT the FAA......

Because we waited new Top Cub owners have the satisfaction of flying their planes at night with illumination standards up to the standard of any biz jet, go figure.

That just says it all. Funny they only went for biz jet standards when NASA standards are available??!!.:evil:

 

[Steve Pierce]

Piper had issues with the Vero Beach Super Cub radios with reflection. That is why the bottom of the panel is angled. It is interesting to see the standards the FAA wants to hold these small simple airplanes to. The landing gear is interesting as well. The new standards for forward impact are incredible. Never mind it is a conventional geared airplane and if it impacts something it will end up upside down but I guess the gear will be ok.

 

[rebel cub]

Looking at the pictures of the instrument panel it looks like the glare shield extends pretty high over the instrument panel. I wonder if this reduces your forward visibility? With bushwheels, the nose is pretty high already.