Helio slats are not spring loaded- totally free to extend/retract on their own.
I agree with the rest of what you wrote, but for any configuration there is a loss of control boundary. Fly a certain configuration for a while and there will be a tendency to fly close to that boundary. Exceed it, and stuff happens. So it's not so much about equipment providing the safety margin, as the operator of that equipment.There's a few situations where you don't think you'll need the slats but then you crank too hard and stall the wing. Moose stall/spin is a classic example.
Helio slats are on a kind of arched track where gravity pulls them out and down on the ground. That's why they don't stay retracted on the ground. Besides, if anything you want a spring pushing them out instead of pulling them in. Air pressure can retract them.
Speaking directly about the Norden and Scrappy...Scrappy's slat and flap arrangement is a coupled system where both the slats and flaps were designed to compliment each other and reduce the pitching moment of the plane between high speed and low speed flight. The Norden, well it doesn't have slotted flaps and the leading edge slats are a simple single vane slat so no real new engineering there. The electric control is a secondary issue and a point of failure. If the electric control is such a ground breaking thing then why didn't Mike Patey make his slats independently controlled rather than slaved to the flaps?
Personally I'd rather have the automatic slats. There's a few situations where you don't think you'll need the slats but then you crank too hard and stall the wing. Moose stall/spin is a classic example. Besides that, it's just another control in the cockpit of what is supposed to be a simple machine to fly. We're not flying big jets here, they're 2 seater piston planes.
I'm just saying that comparing the level of engineering in Scrappy's flap/slat system to the simple slat with an electric motor in the Zlin Norden is a non-starter. They are not at all the same thing.
Jetcat,
This is an example of a high performance airplane with automatic slats like the Helio. Remember, the primary purpose of the slats is to help in keeping the airflow attached to the trailing edge of the wing at high angles of attack. Thus reducing the stall speed of the wing. Airplanes like the F-86 are involved in maneuvers which take them in and out of high angle of attack situations on a moments notice. The last thing a pilot ought to be doing is selecting slats out or not.
As Mike stated, he wanted the center of lift to remain in one location during flap deployment. Since flap deployment moves the center of lift aft and the slats move the center of lift forward, he joined the two to enable a zero trim change situation. What he has built ought to be referred to as a high lift system rather than slats or flaps.
Are the flaps and slats interconnected on your Norden or independently operated?
Jetcat11, I’m slow to pick things up. Do you own a Norden or are waiting on delivery or do you broker them? Where are you located?
Many of us here are hard headed and need see it’s performance in person and against similar cub style planes. The two previous generation slated Zlins that I’ve seen in person were underwhelming to watch against similar competition. Could have been the plane, could have been the pilots. There is or was one in AK, however, that performed well at Valdez.
Here’s the point…..there are now more STOL and or backcountry competitions around the US than there ever has been before and there’s no excuse to not bring one out. Enter the Norden against the Rans, Highlanders and Carbon Cubs of the world. Airline the test pilot over or put someone in it that will show its true capabilities. Until that’s done, everyone here will just keep trying to poke holes in it.
Which slats have you flown yourself? I’m very limited to my own plane’s slats and several hours as passenger in a few Helios. Both are very different from airliners who use pilot controlled slats and procedures and for a bush plane I’ll take Helio or Mackey slats every time, because bush flying doesn’t always lend itself to procedures. If I need to power up and do a 180° turn to escape a canyon or a cloud I don’t need to flip a switch to gain the safety margin my slats provide. They’re always there for me. I get the idea that you aren’t very familiar with flying slats or flying real backcountry conditions so trying to reason is wasted words. Brochures and videos don’t impress me nearly as much as what I see with my own eyes and feel with my own hands. My plane carries a big load at silly slow speeds with a safety margin I continue to appreciate.
Do you have any PIC experience in slat airplanes? Any passenger experience with a qualified pilot of a slat-equipped plane like a Helio?
The Norden looks awesome.
However, I blocked jetcatt11 long ago due to non-stop paid advertisement he/she/it blasts out on every available forum. It is too much, and too obvious.
You did not understand my meaning. Slats do one thing to the airflow and flaps do another, independently of each other. Mike's slats and flaps are bussed together to act as one unit. They can not be operated independently of each other. Thus I'm labeling them as a high lift system.How can you say what Mike has created is a high lift system vs the Norden’s slats or flaps. You’re kidding right? If the Norden isn’t a high lift system I don’t know what is.
You did not understand my meaning. Slats do one thing to the airflow and flaps do another, independently of each other. Mike's slats and flaps are bussed together to act as one unit. They can not be operated independently of each other. Thus I'm labeling them as a high lift system.
Because Mackey slats achieve most of anything anyone wants and any speed advantage of Helio slats is insignificant?