• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Alaska fish & hunt - Patrol or Cub

Alaska fish & hunt - Patrol or Cub

Tom, you know I’m a “show me” to believe it kind of guy. I’ve talked to Rollie VanDorn and Mike Silvernagle extensively, gone through Rollie’s patrol, and reviewed hundreds of flights to prove to myself it was really that fast. Its hard to have a tailwind on every flight and there’s enough ADSB data to look at. John and Rene flew Bob’s as you know. Both were impressed.

It’s not a cub. It won’t win a Stol contest competing against cubs. It’s just another option and it’s good to have options. I’m sure when Carl, John and Pete Temple’s finish there will be ample chance to test both land and Amphib version locally. [emoji106]

Or maybe you can fly Rollie’s this spring at WV.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Alaska fish & hunt - Patrol or Cub

Crash said:
Every time I see a Bearhawk I'm reminded how hard they are on the eyes.

Yup...agree....
This is my Bearhawk cowl. Using a Mooney Acclaim cowl...will find the shape and lay up a new carbon fiber cowl using it as the mold.
5e32320de5e33453fae696fc0093fafb.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
That cowl definitely helps. Whenever I see a bearhawk with that long nose and nearly vertical windshield they always look like Goofy. Maybe it's that Pacer style bubble windshield. Honestly, why a Bearhawk over a Pacer with a stretched wing?
 

Attachments

  • goofy-face3.png
    goofy-face3.png
    88 KB · Views: 133
Sorry maybe that was the wrong question. To the uninitiated it looks a whole lot like a long wing Pacer or a Maule M4
 
Crash said:
That cowl definitely helps. Whenever I see a bearhawk with that long nose and nearly vertical windshield they always look like Goofy. Maybe it's that Pacer style bubble windshield. Honestly, why a Bearhawk over a Pacer with a stretched wing?
Click to expand...

You mean wings like this...
5000b2ae5aa1a5776909c89afbdbf898.jpg
for this?
5649ea9f38ce4458882dac12080ef7e5.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Yeah, now there's a good looking plane. Piper really knew how to make a nicely shaped aircraft.
 
Looks Pretty good to me!!

Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.09.37 AM.pngScreen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.15.46 AM.pngScreen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.20.48 AM.png
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.09.37 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.09.37 AM.png
    649.7 KB · Views: 148
  • Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.15.46 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.15.46 AM.png
    873.4 KB · Views: 131
  • Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.20.48 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 6.20.48 AM.png
    653.9 KB · Views: 124
JohnnyR said:
Hmmm...
I don’t know how valid this informal comparison is, but good enough for conversation starter?

Click to expand...

It seems a reasonable comparison, but some things I think should be stipulated and maybe add a few more tests later.

First, if you do have an engine out situation and need to glide- FEATHER THE PROP!! Doing a glide test with your constant speed still at cruise pitch does not make any sense to me- why would you put up with that excess weight and cost and not use it?? Bet the Patrol would well outpace the cub in glide with the prop back!

Second, we had a discussion quite a while ago (years) comparing the 180 cubs to smaller engine cubs, including fuel used for distance traveled- results seemed to be a lower total fuel burn for the bigger engine: time to climb and actual cruise speed made up for GPH.

It would be good to see a comparison between a 180 cub and the Patrol on Takeoff. I think the 160 cub will stop pretty well so the landing distance is a valid look. A flight from Palmer to Puntilla Lake or Gulkana and back with a fuel used comparison would be of value. As we all know, a faster cruise speed in headwinds really helps total fuel use. That would be a great real world test.

For most pilots, the two are close enough in runway length needed to make them viable. Wonder how the Patrol would do with slats? Keller flaps?

The possibilities.
 
aktango58 said:
Piper? Pacer was designed by BD Maule... look at them compared to the M-4.
Click to expand...

BD Maule built the M4 10 years after the Pacer came out. Maule was basically just a Georgia hot rodder who decided that Pacer could use some more power so strapped a Continental O-300 to the nose and graced it with his own name.

And proceeded to ruin those classic Piper lines in the process.
 
Crash said:
BD Maule built the M4 10 years after the Pacer came out. Maule was basically just a Georgia hot rodder who decided that Pacer could use some more power so strapped a Continental O-300 to the nose and graced it with his own name.

And proceeded to ruin those classic Piper lines in the process.
Click to expand...
Actually Maule started in Napoleon, Michigan.
 
aktango58 said:
.... we had a discussion quite a while ago (years) comparing the 180 cubs to smaller engine cubs, including fuel used for distance traveled- results seemed to be a lower total fuel burn for the bigger engine: time to climb and actual cruise speed made up for GPH.

It would be good to see a comparison between a 180 cub and the Patrol on Takeoff. I think the 160 cub will stop pretty well so the landing distance is a valid look. A flight from Palmer to Puntilla Lake or Gulkana and back with a fuel used comparison would be of value. As we all know, a faster cruise speed in headwinds really helps total fuel use. That would be a great real world test.

For most pilots, the two are close enough in runway length needed to make them viable. Wonder how the Patrol would do with slats? Keller flaps?

The possibilities.
Click to expand...


I am building a Patrol. I like real data, and through others might too.

Here is a trip report that Bob Barrows wrote up that is a side by side comparison of the Patrol against a Smith Supercub. The short story. The cub was a Smith Cub, O-360 with 10:1 compression. Trip to Idaho from Fincastle. Leg 1 to Randolf County, Indiana. Bob arrived 30 minutes ahead of the cub, used 30% less fuel, 18" MP, 2500 RPM, 50% power burned 7gph.

This was in 2009. The Patrol capability is a well kept secrete. Time to get the word out.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CZjDlwOzUbpM7aaVsyK9CpUYo3pQbYAV/view?usp=sharing
 
Last edited:
A Test Flight Report was performed by an Aeronautical Engineer on the Patrol a number of years ago. I believe the test was performed on the prototype when it had a 170 hp O-360 with a constant speed prop. Low Compression pistons were used I think (key word think....I might be wrong) so that Bob could burn cheap auto gas. Today the prototype has a parallel valve O-360 with a Hartzel Trailblazer prop.

Lots of good data here and a very descriptive account of flying its characteristics.



http://bearhawk.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/GregKingReport.html
 
bcone1381 said:
A Test Flight Report was performed by an Aeronautical Engineer on the Patrol a number of years ago. I believe the test was performed on the prototype when it had a 170 hp O-360 with a constant speed prop. Low Compression pistons were used I think (key word think....I might be wrong) so that Bob could burn cheap auto gas. Today the prototype has a parallel valve O-360 with a Hartzel Trailblazer prop.

Lots of good data here and a very descriptive account of flying its characteristics.



http://bearhawk.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/GregKingReport.html
Click to expand...

Everything Bob builds works great. He came to the WAD flyin many times. His little tandem C85 fliver left us in the dust everyday and still performed great getting out of the WAD 2 up.

Glenn
 
Comparisons that revolve around cruise speed and fuel burn make me laugh. If that's your mission get an RV-7 or a Mooney. It's like bragging how well your lifted Jeep does on the highway.

We will all get where we're going but only some of us will be able to land there.
 
The attractive attributes for the perfect second plane are very different than the perfect only plane. That’s my story, anyhow.

I’m a fan of another 6-place kit plane on the market.
 
Last edited:
Crash said:
Comparisons that revolve around cruise speed and fuel burn make me laugh. If that's your mission get an RV-7 or a Mooney. It's like bragging how well your lifted Jeep does on the highway.

We will all get where we're going but only some of us will be able to land there.
Click to expand...

It seems to me like you just changed this discussion into a Patrol vs RV-7. Why did you do that? Lets keep this thread focused on the Cub, the Patrol, and good data.
 
bcone1381 said:
It seems to me like you just changed this discussion into a Patrol vs RV-7. Why did you do that? Lets keep this thread focused on the Cub, the Patrol, and good data.
Click to expand...
I disagree. This is what makes this forum informative and entertaining. I’ll read through an entire thread that I’m not interested in because a lot of times there will be an offshoot of information that is informative (wether it pertained to the original subject or not). Wikipedia has good information if taken with a grain of salt but often reads like an encyclopedia. This has personality.
 
Last edited:
Crash said:
Comparisons that revolve around cruise speed and fuel burn make me laugh. If that's your mission get an RV-7 or a Mooney. It's like bragging how well your lifted Jeep does on the highway.

We will all get where we're going but only some of us will be able to land there.
Click to expand...
I had to chuckle at your post because of what it reminded me of. While looking at airplanes on the ramp in Fairbanks several years ago with a local friend we came upon a Bonanza which looked out of place there and I commented as much. He said oh no, the owner claims that is the best Bush plane in Alaska. I said, really, hw is that? He said that he can get anywhere in Alaska faster than most and pay some Cub driver to wreck his airplane getting him into his favorite fishing spot. ;)

Just for you Kevin. No as to the ADS-B problem and the proper way to shoe that horse... :lol:
 
Alaska fish & hunt - Patrol or Cub

I think bcone’s point was that it’s misleading.

Why can’t a guy that flys off airport be concerned with fuel burn and speed? Still have to travel, unless you have multiple airplanes. Still have to buy fuel, it adds up. Most of the guys I know want to fly more..... and I’ve heard from owners all the way to the top end about $200/300+ days and wives seeing the charges come rolling through.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Wait, your wives don’t support your aviation addiction? And don’t say Jeeze I think we need some anfibs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RaisedByWolves said:
Wait, your wives don’t support your aviation addiction? And don’t say Jeeze I think we need some anfibs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
No....and if a new part has fresh paint or new Bushwheels look too black they both get dirt rubbed on them;-)

Please stay on topic Mr Ford.....
 
Farmboy said:
I think bcone’s point was that it’s misleading.

Why can’t a guy that flys off airport be concerned with fuel burn and speed? Still have to travel, unless you have multiple airplanes. Still have to buy fuel, it adds up. Most of the guys I know want to fly more..... and I’ve heard from owners all the way to the top end about $200/300+ days and wives seeing the charges come rolling through.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
Click to expand...

I've had a private checking account for airplane stuff for almost 30 years. All my part time little jobs money goes in it. No wonder your in trouble

Glenn
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Cub Kit Comparison
2
Replies
36
Views
33K
Dave Prizio
D
I
PA-12 vs PA-18??
Replies
7
Views
3K
iamcamper
I
T
Cost to build a "stock" Super Cub from scratch
2 3
Replies
84
Views
60K
Fortysix12
F
U
Completed Javron Super Cub
Replies
23
Views
3K
upnorth
U
D
Light Cub/Heavy Cub
Replies
27
Views
8K
JimC
J
Back
Top