PA 18-95 Data Plate

Good day,

My newly restored 90 Hp of 1954 lacks the data plate. I understand this is the type of plate of that time:



I have model, s/n and MFG date info, but what should be stamped for T.C. ??? and P.C ???.

Where can I get a new plate to punch my data?

Thanks,

Gian

Legally over here they require you to go through Piper and the FAA. I would contact Clyde Smith, the Cub Doctor. I bet he can help. TC is type certificate which is 1A2. If you Google "data plate site:supercub.org" you will find good information. You have an early data tag, later they were much larger. Is it an L18C or a straight PA18?

Thanks Steve for your reply.

I just want to put a replica data plate, here no ona has asked for it.
My PA18-95 is a straight civil plane exported fro the US to France and later in the sixties moved to Italy.
T.C. Stands for Type Certificate whis is 1A2 : ok I will put that.
What about P. C. ?

Ciao


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I think Clyde has the older stamping press so the numbers look original

Glenn

PLANT CODE

In the USA we have the FAA, and without an official data plate you dont have an airplane, all you have is a heap of metal that you can't fly. To get a new one issued is a nightmare. I am sure if you look hard enough you will find the official data plate.

The data plate you show was used up until about October 1950. After that, they had to go to a Stainless fireproof data plate. I don’t have a drawing of what the later data plates looked like. I suspect they were the same as the late ‘50s TriPacers.

TC= Type Certificate. PC= Production Certificate.

I haven’t looked at SuperCub drawings much, so not sure where they were installed on them.


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Eddie747 said:

PLANT CODE

In the USA we have the FAA, and without an official data plate you dont have an airplane, all you have is a heap of metal that you can't fly. To get a new one issued is a nightmare. I am sure if you look hard enough you will find the official data plate.

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I would listen to what Eddie is saying he is giving you good info.
Several years ago I took my PA12 in for an annual, and the AI didn't like the data plate. He said it was a duplicate and would not annual the aircraft without getting the FAA involved. Three months and around 5000 bucks later I finally got the approval to replace the Data Tag. If I were you I would look really hard for that Data plate.

The OP does not fall under FAA rules.

Web

wireweinie said:

The OP does not fall under FAA rules.

Web

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Wirewineinie: what do you mesn?

Your aircraft is not registered as a U.S. aircraft, correct? If not, FAA rules about obtaining a replacement data plate would not apply.

Web

Ok thankss. Copied.

I would stay very, very far away from that particular IA.

bob turner said:

I would stay very, very far away from that particular IA.

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IA? Thanks

giangab said:

IA? Thanks

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IA is the abbreviation for a mechanic with an Inspection Authorization. An IA mechanic is the person who accomplishes an inspection once a year. This inspection is called an "Annual" inspection. Aircraft mechanics are called A&Ps. Airframe and Powerplant mechanics. Airframe and Powerplant are two separate ratings on a mechanics license. Most mechanics have both ratings, though both are not required.
A mechanic license with both A&P (Airframe and Powerplant) ratings is required to be eligible to possess an IA (Inspection Authorization).

Thanks Skywahon,
clear explanation of these acronims.

EASA regulations are based largely on US regulations, but in many cases are stricter. You may want to have a sit down with the shop that will be working on your airplane to see what their requirements are before you go putting a data plate that does not belong on your airplane.

Depending on when your airplane was built, there are two different data plates that were used. The one you show a picture of was used up until some time between late 1950 and early 1951 (I think, exact serial number hasn’t been determined), and was located inside the fuselage just aft of the trim jackscrew. Airplanes with that data plate also have a fuselage number plate on the cross tube between the front and rear spar carry through. The fuselage number does not correspond to the serial number of the airplane, but Clyde Smith (Cub Doctor) has the original build sheets and can cross reference them. The later aircraft have a larger data plate that looks nothing like what your picture shows. This data plate was located on the floorboard under the front seat. For airplanes with this style data plate, the fuselage number plate is located on the diagonal tube on the right side under the instrument panel.

For airplanes with the early style data plate, the date field should be blank. Since the plate had to be installed prior to the installation of fabric, the final date of manufacture was unknown, and CAR 2, the regulation that specified what needed to be on the plate didn’t require a date. For all the aircraft manufactured in the Lock Haven Piper plant, the Production Certificate was #7, so a “7” should go in the PC block for all the Lock Haven built airplanes.

If you do a search about data plates, you should find a thread with pictures of the later style data plates and the location.


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dgapilot said:

......... there are two different data plates that were used. The one you show a picture of was used up until some time between late 1950 and early 1951 (I think, exact serial number hasn’t been determined), and was located inside the fuselage just aft of the trim jackscrew..... The later aircraft have a larger data plate that looks nothing like what your picture shows. This data plate was located on the floorboard under the front seat. For airplanes with this style data plate, the fuselage number plate is located on the diagonal tube on the right side under the instrument panel. .......

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FWIW here's a pic of a data plate off a 1953 PA-18-105 Special, it's located on the floorboard under the front seat as described.

PA-22/20-160 said:

I’ve had several 1951 and 1952 Cubs that came with the early style data plates and a 1953 that had the same as hotrods picture so somewhere between 1952-53 they changed.

You can get a new one from Piper but they require you have the local FISO or whatever agency you have there inspect the aircraft and records to determine it’s the original plane, they will make a pencil tracing of the fuselage serial number and get the serial numbers off the wing spars to match the records. Then said agency will write a letter to accompany your request to piper along with payment $$ then you get a plate from them that looks like this
View attachment 54083

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I've been arguing with the FAA over these "replacement data plates". If you look, for all aircraft that were manufactured by Piper Aircraft Corp. they are incorrect!. It has the wrong manufacture (In the one shown "The New Piper Aircraft, Inc." that one is several years old, others more recent "Piper Aircraft Inc.), and they have the incorrect Production Certificate shown. All the Lock Haven aircraft were built under PC 7. The Vero Beach PC is 206. Here is a picture of the latest style "replacement" that is also wrong.

Momentary thread hijack;

Giangab, what are your local requirements for electrical equipment? Starter & alternator? Lights? Avionics equipment?

Web

You find them online but they are not the same size as the real one, I had an imitation on my instrument panel when I purchesed it, found the real one buried under grease in the tail.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIPER-Airc...-/121933992157?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Glenn

cubdriver2 said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIPER-Airc...-/121933992157?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Glenn

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That's a little steep for a reproduction.

cubdriver2 said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIPER-Airc...-/121933992157?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Glenn

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That one is a J3 plate and looks like the real deal, not a fake one. You can tell the cheap fakes by the wrong size letters of "MFG. DATE" and the position of the words. Here is one found from another thread here, look at the lines, and compare to the fake one from the first post in this thread the bottom one.

https://www.wagaero.com/data-placards-replica-data-placard-kit-for-piper.html $5.75

Might be worth getting one to have as a spare, might pass if you lose your original and the FAA says your plane is no longer safe to fly with it not there. If they made right one without the engine line there and had the coerect T.C. and P.C. I would buy a couple. PIPER AIRCRAFT CORP. is smaller than the original also, and says made of steel not aluminum.

In the original the letters in PIPER AIRCRAFT are a hare bigger than MFG DATE letters, the rest are 3/32 I think, and look at the lines and letters that line up.

giangab said:

Thanks Steve for your reply.

I just want to put a replica data plate, here no ona has asked for it.
My PA18-95 is a straight civil plane exported fro the US to France and later in the sixties moved to Italy.
T.C. Stands for Type Certificate whis is 1A2 : ok I will put that.
What about P. C. ?

Ciao


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando SuperCub.Org

Click to expand...

PC is the Production Certificate that the aircraft was produced under. All aircraft produced in Lock Haven PA were produced under Production Certificate 7, so "7" would go in that field. All that said, when was your airplane manufactured (what year)? The plate shown in post #1 was only used up until sometime late 1950 or early 1951. A larger plate was used after that date. Likewise the location of the plate was changed. The plate shown in post #1 was located in the tail on the diagonal tube aft of the trim yoke. The larger plate (post 1950) was located on the floor board under the front seat.

I'm not sure it's been stated forcefully enough, here;

IF YOU HAVE A US CERTIFICATED AIRCRAFT - A replacement data plate must be obtained from the manufacturer, with FAA permission! There is no wiggle room on this. As shown above, an imitation plate is not hard to produce. And it is even legal to use it as the 'DEA' data plate on the empennage. But only if the original data plate is still permanently attached to the airframe. If you use a data plate, that you have stamped, (even with the correct info) in place of the manufacturers data plate, you are in violation of the FARs.

Just be aware of this if you choose to replace a data plate on your own. Please read FAR 45.10 which covers producing a data plate and FAR 45.13 (b), (c), (d), and (e) which covers removing, reinstalling, and changing data plates.

Web

wireweinie said:

I'm not sure it's been stated forcefully enough, here;

IF YOU HAVE A US CERTIFICATED AIRCRAFT - A replacement data plate must be obtained from the manufacturer, with FAA permission! There is no wiggle room on this. As shown above, an imitation plate is not hard to produce. And it is even legal to use it as the 'DEA' data plate on the empennage. But only if the original data plate is still permanently attached to the airframe. If you use a data plate, that you have stamped, (even with the correct info) in place of the manufacturers data plate, you are in violation of the FARs.

Just be aware of this if you choose to replace a data plate on your own. Please read FAR 45.10 which covers producing a data plate and FAR 45.13 (b), (c), (d), and (e) which covers removing, reinstalling, and changing data plates.

Web

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well ... the original data plate is still permanently attached to the airframe ....

i can understand data pinched or welded on the airframe might be considered permanently attached ... but an alluminium plate screwed on a woodden floor board or riveted on a plate cannot be considered permanently ..... i am surely wrong .... law makers sometimes are fantasious ....

an original data plate attached to a weak part that rottens, on a plane having over 70 years, perhaps over 8000 hours on the frame and uncountable accidents repairs and rebuilds ... sounds strange.
But that’s it. Pilot owner life is tough

giangab said:

well ... the original data plate is still permanently attached to the airframe ....

i can understand data pinched or welded on the airframe might be considered permanently attached ... but an alluminium plate screwed on a woodden floor board or riveted on a plate cannot be considered permanently ..... i am surely wrong .... law makers sometimes are fantasious ....

an original data plate attached to a weak part that rottens, on a plane having over 70 years, perhaps over 8000 hours on the frame and uncountable accidents repairs and rebuilds ... sounds strange.
But that’s it. Pilot owner life is tough [emoji41][emoji106][emoji1787]

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The early plates attached to the fuselage back in the tail were aluminum. They were attached with a piece of 1/16” welding wire tacked to the tube, then threaded through the holes of the plate and bent over to secure it. The post 1951 plates that are larger are made from stainless to meet the new (in late 1950) fireproof requirement. Those are the ones screwed onto the floorboard under the front seat. Piper, and the then CAA had no expectation that these airplanes would still be around some 70 years later! Unfortunately, that sill little piece of metal defines the airplane. Every other part can be replaced easily, but the data plate is the one that is controlled and hard to replace (legally).


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dgapilot said:

The early plates attached to the fuselage back in the tail were aluminum. They were attached with a piece of 1/16” welding wire tacked to the tube, then threaded through the holes of the plate and bent over to secure it. The post 1951 plates that are larger are made from stainless to meet the new (in late 1950) fireproof requirement. Those are the ones screwed onto the floorboard under the front seat. Piper, and the then CAA had no expectation that these airplanes would still be around some 70 years later! Unfortunately, that sill little piece of metal defines the airplane. Every other part can be replaced easily, but the data plate is the one that is controlled and hard to replace (legally).
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Thanks for your replay: noted. You say that plates were stailess steel since 1951


the plates materal according to Cub Doctor “
The plates were aluminum up into the 80's when the FAA mandated that all manufacturers make the plates out of stainless.”
Please clarify this matter.