Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
Trying to guess-ta-mate how much weigh would be shed by removing a belly tank and pump from a PA-18. Ball Park figure.
How much does a 30 gallon belly tank weigh? Roughly..
- Thread starter Alex Clark
- Start date
Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
32 pounds with hardware and pump
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Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
Thanks a bunch. I was guessing about 30 pounds but was not sure. Trying to brain-fart compute if an PA-18 that weighs 1345 pounds with 31s and a belly tank would leave me any usable legal on floats. Plus I would yank out the vacuum system, the DG, the artificial horizon and the KX155 with the glide scope,VOR head, plus an old ADF.
Then install a Garmin G5 and a Becker lightweight radio. So between the tank, pump and panel stuff, maybe I could remove 45 to 50 pounds. Plus there is a metal headliner.
Then install a Garmin G5 and a Becker lightweight radio. So between the tank, pump and panel stuff, maybe I could remove 45 to 50 pounds. Plus there is a metal headliner.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
sounds REALLY heavy. Must be more to the story, 180 hp with solid crank and Dakota wings?
Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
Nope. 160 horse, wide deck, droop tips , 3 inch extended gear. Old 31 inch Bush wheels, booster brakes, all the heavy panel stuff and a lot of old cables.
I suspect the W&B is all messed up. The weights on the old float version are all make believe.
I suspect the W&B is all messed up. The weights on the old float version are all make believe.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
Any chance getting it on scales before you buy and see where it’s at?
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farm_boy252
Registered User
Norman wells, NT
When I bought my plane I was a total newbie, it needed panel work and that's my one regret - like you said I should have gutted the vaccume system and steam gauges. My plane had the origional huge piper AI and HI, I went with small modern ones. That was before the G5 days but I could have just gone with the Dynon pocket panel even though its gps based. I did rip out the VOR and ADF though. Both were the huge box all in one style ones. The panel was so huge that the stick hit it when pushed forward so you know what the former owner did? Just cut the stick a few inches shorter
md11freighter
FRIEND
Wasilla
Look at the Uavonix AV30 instead of a G5. Lighter, simpler, and more features.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
I'll second, and third that suggestion. I installed two, got rid of the vacuum system, and if I were in a Cub, I'd install an AV-30 C front and center, and pull almost everything else out of the panel, except nav. No need for VSI, Slip/Skid ball, volt meter, etc, etc.
I'm really impressed with the functionality, and these things weigh almost nothing. I think they're also a little cheaper than the G-5 and fit in a 3 1/8 hole with no modification. In a no gyro cub, one of these things could save your neck in weather.
I've really, really wished I'd had something like this more than once.
On the original topic, however, that weight doesn't sound that unrealistic on those tires. It may still have a generator, heavy starter, brass oil cooler, etc, etc. too. Now you're starting to talk big bucks to lighten, though replacing those with lightweight stuff can reduce weight ~ 40 pounds.
If that weight is accurate, unless you install the 2000 pound gross weight kit, forget using it as a seaplane trainer. In fact, depending on the size of your DPE, it may in fact be really tough to get MOST Super Cubs light enough on floats to do training.
You already know this, but when you're doing float ratings, a lot of your customers show up and you instantly start doing mental math. I sold my Super Cub and bought a 170 for that very reason. My Cub wasn't that heavy, but with a GW of 1756 there was just no way that plane could be legal, and our DPE wasn't exactly "petite" either....
MTV
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Just as an example,
Consider a hypothetical Super Cub, on floats.....starting with a 1200 pound Cub, exchange weight of EDO 2000 floats is ~ 170 pounds. Now, your Cub weighs 1370. Add at least 20 gallons of fuel, for 120 pounds, now you have a basic weight of 1490 pounds. Then there's survival gear. Let's say you can get that down to 20 pounds.....now you're at 1510.
Super Cub gross weight on floats is 1760 pounds. So, your useful load is 250 pounds.
Are you seriously going to use this airplane for certifying new seaplane pilots? I've had a number of seaplane students who weighed more than that by themselves.
Okay, let's say you find a SC that weighs 1100 pounds on wheels, honestly...(good luck there). That gives you a useful load of 350 pounds once the floats are installed, and gas. How much do you, the instructor weigh? Let's say you weigh the FAA "average" of 180. Your students can not weigh more than 170 pounds???
And, again, what's your DPE weigh? Is your DPE going to conduct checkrides in an over gross weight condition, like every checkride? I can show you a guy who got bit doing that. Trust me, you don't want to build a business model on that concept.
So, are my calculations in error?
Bottom line: If you're going to use a Super Cub for seaplane training, you NEED the 2000 pound gross weight kit. The good news is, that kit is now applicable to EDO 2000 floats. The bad news is....well you already know that.
MTV
Consider a hypothetical Super Cub, on floats.....starting with a 1200 pound Cub, exchange weight of EDO 2000 floats is ~ 170 pounds. Now, your Cub weighs 1370. Add at least 20 gallons of fuel, for 120 pounds, now you have a basic weight of 1490 pounds. Then there's survival gear. Let's say you can get that down to 20 pounds.....now you're at 1510.
Super Cub gross weight on floats is 1760 pounds. So, your useful load is 250 pounds.
Are you seriously going to use this airplane for certifying new seaplane pilots? I've had a number of seaplane students who weighed more than that by themselves.
Okay, let's say you find a SC that weighs 1100 pounds on wheels, honestly...(good luck there). That gives you a useful load of 350 pounds once the floats are installed, and gas. How much do you, the instructor weigh? Let's say you weigh the FAA "average" of 180. Your students can not weigh more than 170 pounds???
And, again, what's your DPE weigh? Is your DPE going to conduct checkrides in an over gross weight condition, like every checkride? I can show you a guy who got bit doing that. Trust me, you don't want to build a business model on that concept.
So, are my calculations in error?
Bottom line: If you're going to use a Super Cub for seaplane training, you NEED the 2000 pound gross weight kit. The good news is, that kit is now applicable to EDO 2000 floats. The bad news is....well you already know that.
MTV
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Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
That was the beauty of the non-electric PA-11s on floats. 1350 gross on floats.
I would unload the survival gear and all but 8 gallons of gas. ( only burned 4.5 gallons an hour.)
My DPE back then claimed he weighed 200 pounds.
After the check-ride we would fuel up, reload and fly home.
I gotta find out what the one ton stc costs.
I would unload the survival gear and all but 8 gallons of gas. ( only burned 4.5 gallons an hour.)
My DPE back then claimed he weighed 200 pounds.
After the check-ride we would fuel up, reload and fly home.
I gotta find out what the one ton stc costs.
Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
Looks like the Uavonix AV30 is about $300 to $400 less than the G5, ( I put two G5s into my 180 a couple years ago.)
The AV30s weigh 0.50 pound each.
The G5s weigh 0.96 pound each
Interesting,
The AV30s weigh 0.50 pound each.
The G5s weigh 0.96 pound each
Interesting,
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
That number is a salesman's number.
The weight of EDO 2000s from EDO's official affidavit of the weight and balance is as follows:
For a PA-12.. 265 lbs. @ 14.2"
For a PA-18.. 263 lbs. @ 14.0"
The speed fairings add 4 lbs. to the above weights.
Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
Wow! The PK-2300s I had on a late model 172 weighed 305 pounds. Yours are heavy...
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
He forgot to pump them out before he put them on the scale. :roll: Either that or he used a grocer's scale. The one with the thumb on it. 8)
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
My anfibs don’t weigh that much. At least that’s what the book says. Weird the actual weight was 200lbs heavier than what the book said. Guess we will use book weight.
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Amy
SPONSOR
WI/MN/SD
$4,000 for the kit and all paperwork, plus USPS Priority Mail to Alaska is usually $30-$35.
—Amy
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mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
My PeeKay B-2300s were close to that weight, but I think they were just a bit under 300.
But, the B's are longer than the 2300s.
MTV
Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
PK-2300 on C172N = 301 pounds
PK-2300 (B)s on C-172N = 305 pounds.
Probably few few pounds lighter on a C-170B
PK-2300 (B)s on C-172N = 305 pounds.
Probably few few pounds lighter on a C-170B
Amy
SPONSOR
WI/MN/SD
[/QUOTE]
Lou,
You’ll be pleased to know in the lower 48 we are practically exclusively a FedEx operation (only brown if requested, and big stuff gets quoted to some specialty freight folks)! [emoji41] Non-USPS rates for a 2,000 kit to Alaska are usually more than double and USPS is often requested, but I’ll ship using whatever the customer wants [emoji847]
—Amy
[/QUOTE]
One of my favorite stories... The major corporation I flew for had to send some important paperwork to one of their largest customers, UPS. Guess how the poor executive assistant sent it?? Yep, FedEx..... Needless to say, the delivery driver had a huge grin on his face when he pulled up to the building. UPS refused to accept it.. return to sender....
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
