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Supercub Annual cost ???

RE87-Zulu

RE87-Zulu

PATRON
Sweetwater, Texas
I was just wondering what the going rate for an annual Inspection is? Cost per hour and also approximate time (hours) a basic Annual has been running. I understand that it depends on consumables and parts etc.. I know there are other variables as well, I'm just looking for a little info.

Thanks.
 
the first one with a new guy/shop will be more involved $$... but then if you stick with them it should be less, once they are familiar with your plane and sure the paperwork is reflective of the plane...

so if you bounce from place to place you will end up spending more...
 
In addition to mike mcs statement. To give you some numbers, where I live (somewhere in Alaska), the going rate for an annual inspection is $750-$1,000. Then you have to fix everything they found un-airworthy. (shop rates vary). Alot of it depends on the condition of your aircraft/paperwork. You could easily spend anywhere from $2,000-$10,000. Your question is fairly broad in general and highly subjective.
 
I agree - a simple Cub that I have not looked at before requires almost six hours of study, just for paperwork issues. The weight and balance computations are almost always seriously in error, even from respected repair shops, and tracking down STCs and approved data can be a nightmare.

Then we arrange it all, including ADs, in the back of the logbook, reference all the STC documents and 337s, put them in an envelope, and begin to look at the airplane itself. Next time, as Mike says, we skip that expensive paperwork step.

I will be alone when I say this, but the ones I dislike the most are those complicated Adlog deals.
 
I always say $6,000 a year. 2 on insurance, 2 on maintenance, 2 on fuel.

And that over a ten year period wouldn't be too far from the truth.

The two on maintenance is some years labour, some years parts. I try to do most labour myself so as I can spend more of that two grand on parts and keep a tidy aeroplane.

No capital costs (my Dad purchased it), no hangarage (I've my own on my property) and starting with a good aeroplane.

And obviously that's $6,000 after tax dollars. Worth it though.:)
 
Thanks for the input. I know it was a broad question. I used to work with Father in law in shop had 2 Cubs we did 100 hr and annual inspections on, logs were in not immaculate but close to it aircraft were in good shape and clean we could do a a thorough inspection in 8 to 12hrs (2 men, 4 to 6 hrs) a shop is saying around 40 hrs labor on pretty much same situation. Just checking to see if I'm way out of the loop.
 
texmex said:
I always say $6,000 a year. 2 on insurance, 2 on maintenance, 2 on fuel.

And that over a ten year period wouldn't be too far from the truth.

The two on maintenance is some years labour, some years parts. I try to do most labour myself so as I can spend more of that two grand on parts and keep a tidy aeroplane.

No capital costs (my Dad purchased it), no hangarage (I've my own on my property) and starting with a good aeroplane.

And obviously that's $6,000 after tax dollars. Worth it though.:)
Click to expand...

Damn close on annual cost !
 
I would guess 10-12 for first time - also depends on who takes the inspection covers, etc. off and puts them back on.
 
I work in a shop that has a flat rate for annuals per the model of A/C, starting at $600.00 for C-150's to several thousand for larger twins. On the simple planes like a 172 the inspection takes 8 hrs aprox. , the paperwork is figured at three hours, repairs and additional time on the paperwork is billed at 75-80 per hrs. We gladly install owner supplied parts and oil for just labor. We are in a large airport in the NE with a large overhead but do our best to keep expenses down for the owners and still provide first rate service.
 
This is a loaded question but if the same plane was taken to different shops at different locations the price would vary wildly , case and point, mid 1980s the labor rate was 1/3 in Montana , around Stevensville n Hamilton of what it was at St Cloud / Av Alaska in Anchorage,
Hanger rental was about the same, when we crunched the numbers even counting in the fuel to run 185 down there it was still half price!
So on two Skywagons it amounted to alot of money, Ditto for Maine at that time here were the economy was (and still is) poor, if the plane was fairly tinkered up, you could get a cub annualed for very reasonable amount ........ of course when you compared apples to apples and roll into a $300K hanger, with all the bells and whistles, your mechanic is driving a $65K pickup, and used to mostly working for people with Park Ave, an Beverly Hills
Address's dont expect a $ 200 annuals!
 
Well, yeah. We have shops that do $10,000 annuals. One Cub got a $40,000 annual.

There is a vast paperwork difference between a 172 and a Super Cub. The typical 172 probably has no mods, or maybe just a cuff or something. Most Super Cubs have five or six different STCs and/or field approvals, and I see 337s with no backup at all.

It is like a flight review - if someone asks me for an annual and they have a mod with no STC paperwork and no stamp in block 3, I gently tell them that I am not doing annuals this month. I suggest ways of fixing it. If you pay a shop to track this stuff down and make it legal, it can run to thousands of dollars.

I just got a brake field approval. Just getting the signature took about four hours effort. And some serious begging.
 
bob turner said:
Most Super Cubs have five or six different STCs and/or field approvals
Click to expand...

Bob, respectfully, I can not think of one cub with only five or six mods! that is just what is in the engine compartment usually!

As an owner, and one that has purchased a few planes, yes it is worth looking at the paperwork before you take it to the mechanic. If you have it all organized where the mechanic can determine that it is all signed off and legal, you will save thousands. If you find you are missing paperwork, try to run it down yourself. Sometimes it is only a few calls, sometimes it may take getting records from Oak City. Sometimes it takes getting out the check book and paying for what someone used without permission. Sometimes it means removing the item in question.

I remember years back we would remove our shoulder harness from the cubs because we did not have 'approved' attach points and could not be approved. When we got the plane back we would put them back in.

One thing to consider is how you fly your plane. If you are doing pipeline patrol or just going up to see the sights with no radios/instruments you will pay a bunch less than those that are putting them down on rough short strips. Landing with brakes on, rolling over large rocks and loading a cub for work takes it's toll, and brings costs up.

When I was flying rivers for salmon counts my inspection costs were double. Part of that was my mission was to be just above tree tops putting the plane in position for the observer to see below us. Hard banks, heavy plane and rapid full control deflection in not so perfect weather was a normal day. Cables lasted less than 500 hours... if there as ANY question on controls, they got changed.

If I had just been flying circles to take pictures I probably could have used the cables another 500 hours...
 
I would second the idea that using the same mechanic will reduce annual costs. 1st annual after purchase of the -12 was circa $9000....decreased down to $1000 or so over 3? 4? years with the same mechanic and the same ratty -12.

Of course, the "cheapest" annual was in December after the rebuild completion in May...I think that was $3 - 400.00...but I wouldn't recommend rebuilding as a method to ensure a cheap annual. ;-)
 
Does anyone charge extra per STC since you have to physically get the stc out inspect it per the STC and record the inspection per the stc ?
 
Annual with my IA is usually 800 bucks parts not included. Basically a day worth of work. Now that is not to say that is all I pay at time of annual. We usually find some small things to fix and there are skis to mount. If we get it all done in one day than no extra charge but, usually a bad fever is peaking about that time from the dreaded MOREBETTER disease. Cure for the fever usually costs 2-4 grand in new stuff and labor. The first annual did cost more mostly because we found lots of stuff to fix.
I think people tend to save there mods and small problems until the annual timeframe than complain about the price of the annual. Replacing a wingtip bow is not a normal part of the annual so expect to pay more!
I have heard stories of yearly 5,000 dollar annuals with nothing done but the inspection ( must be the guy has to reread and inspect every STC every year). There are a few bad eggs out there on both sides of the fence (owners not paying there bills after picking up the plane). I think having a IA that has experience with cubs is invaluable for us due to the high number of mods that you run into.
DENNY
 
I can see the initial annual with a new mechanic being higher, with going over everything and getting everything up to your mechanics par, then the next annuals being cheaper.
 
DENNY said:
I have heard stories of yearly 5,000 dollar annuals with nothing done but the inspection ( must be the guy has to reread and inspect every STC every year). There are a few bad eggs out there on both sides of the fence (owners not paying there bills after picking up the plane). I think having a IA that has experience with cubs is invaluable for us due to the high number of mods that you run into.
DENNY
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Only reason I brought that up, is because that is what The world is coming to. friend took his logbooks to the FAA for the Part 137 prelim check to get his certificate. that was one of the things the FAA guy brought up. where are your entries for inspecting the STC's per the ICA. Each newer STC has an ICA and it has to be noted in the logbook that the inspection was done for that STC per the ICA. So in the world of Cover your ass, when you sign off an annual and don't list that you inspected each and every STC per its ICA, is this grounds for the FAA to revoke your IA When a wreck happens.

Just food for thought, not trying to feed the troll. (or be the troll)
 
There are just some things hard to understand. A friend had a 7GCBC rebuilt by IA. New glass cockpit and several STC's. Took almost 2 years and 40K (w/no engine work). No compliant so far except that new empty weight made useful load problematic...... Whatever, I found the next $4000+ annual 34 hours since the rebuild by the IA who rebuilt the airplane to be somewhat excessive.

Another good reason to own E-AB w/repairman cert. I don't mind sometimes paying a real mechanic 100 bucks/hour to back-up my sometimes limited ability but at least I'm calling the shots. No other way I could afford to keep flying. That said, a big repair might still kick me out of the cockpit and require parting out airplane....

Sometimes you just GOT to pay to play.

Jack
 
n40ff said:
There are just some things hard to understand. A friend had a 7GCBC rebuilt by IA. New glass cockpit and several STC's. Took almost 2 years and 40K (w/no engine work). No compliant so far except that new empty weight made useful load problematic...... Whatever, I found the next $4000+ annual 34 hours since the rebuild by the IA who rebuilt the airplane to be somewhat excessive.
Click to expand...

Agree, There are some IAs like this who give the rest of us a bad name. There is no reason for that as you describe it.

n40ff said:
Another good reason to own E-AB w/repairman cert.
Click to expand...
Yup, sad isn't it. At least there is this option for those who are able.
 
E/AB can certainly be a blessing......if you hold a Repairmans certificate for that airplane, OR you have a very cooperative mechanic who's willing to sign off condition inspections on a homebuilt.

i think in today's litigious world, if I were a mechanic, I'd be really reluctant to sign off an E/AB aircraft for condition.

Remember John Denver? Guy who got screwed on that was the builder, but......

MTV
 
Good point Mike; the whole liability thing is really scary. The older I get the more I think about it because it seems to be an issue a lot more than it did years ago.
 
S2D said:
Only reason I brought that up, is because that is what The world is coming to. friend took his logbooks to the FAA for the Part 137 prelim check to get his certificate. that was one of the things the FAA guy brought up. where are your entries for inspecting the STC's per the ICA. Each newer STC has an ICA and it has to be noted in the logbook that the inspection was done for that STC per the ICA. So in the world of Cover your ass, when you sign off an annual and don't list that you inspected each and every STC per its ICA, is this grounds for the FAA to revoke your IA When a wreck happens.

Just food for thought, not trying to feed the troll. (or be the troll)
Click to expand...

That is coming from paper pushers who know nothing about airplanes. When I make the statement that it is airworthy, document the AD compliances and sign my name it is airworthy. They would have to show me a regulation showing that I have to document each and every ICA was followed individually. Some sorry mechanic probably signed an annual and some mod was about to fall off and it crashed so now they have a hard on for ICA compliance. I use to get a ferry permit by filling out a form and faxing it in. Now they want a copy of the logbook entry because someone ferried an airplane that wasn't "safe for intended flight" and crashed. Oh and you have to have a letter from the owner as well. Pretty funny when Tom was trying to get a ferry permit for the airplane he just bought and they wanted a letter from him as the owner along with the paperwork for the ferry permit and logbook entry even though we were traveling to get the airplane on a Sunday. After we submitted it they couldn't get to it till the following Tuesday. They called on Tuesday asking if we still needed it. I said no, we did the annual inspection and flew it home. In the time they spent talking to me on the phone they could have signed the document we filled out and faxed it. How long does that take. Bureacritic B's at its finest.
 
n40ff said:
There are just some things hard to understand. A friend had a 7GCBC rebuilt by IA. New glass cockpit and several STC's. Took almost 2 years and 40K (w/no engine work). No compliant so far except that new empty weight made useful load problematic...... Whatever, I found the next $4000+ annual 34 hours since the rebuild by the IA who rebuilt the airplane to be somewhat excessive.

Another good reason to own E-AB w/repairman cert. I don't mind sometimes paying a real mechanic 100 bucks/hour to back-up my sometimes limited ability but at least I'm calling the shots. No other way I could afford to keep flying. That said, a big repair might still kick me out of the cockpit and require parting out airplane....

Sometimes you just GOT to pay to play.

Jack
Click to expand...

So what was done for that $4000?

I hear owners say their annual cost $xxxxx. Most of the time the annual didn't cost much but the repairs and the add on stuff is what cost. I realize there are bad mechanics out there but unlike Mike Busch (Savvy Aviator) I don't believe we are all that way.
 
Steve Pierce said:
.....I use to get a ferry permit by filling out a form and faxing it in. ....
Click to expand...

heck it used to only take a phone call, and they'd fax one to me or out to near where the wreck was... they'd ask whats wrong, I'd say I don't know, Im just supposed to go patch it up... the permit was good for 10 days, if we didn't get it done just call and they'd extend it.... never once sign the actual log book, always just a scrap of paper, that now became a log entry to be stapled into the log book when they got back.... if i was lucky they'd send a roll of film with some pictures of the damage so you knew what parts to bring, but usually not, and you just had to guess at what you needed to patch it up to get it to fly.. farthest one was like 800? miles with 3? stops/2permits? as the owner got time to make it to anchorage....
 
n40ff said:
A friend had a 7GCBC rebuilt by IA. (w/no engine work). No compliant so far except that new empty weight made useful load problematic...... Whatever, I found the next $4000+ annual 34 hours since the rebuild by the IA who rebuilt the airplane to be somewhat excessive.


Jack
Click to expand...

Useful load is partly an owner's responsibility. Think about what you are installing into your aircraft, and the weight penalty. Flying 101.

As far as the $4,000 annual, how much of that was engine work? What issues were repaired? If it was all fixing stuff done poorly or improper at the rebuild I could see having a problem; if it was engine or fixing owner mistakes then it is not unreasonable.

An annual will cost say $1,500 I would expect on a rebuild. It would be silly to not inspect carefully everything and be careful about it on rebuild. Including some stuff that would normally be beyond, but what is rubbing/wearing? check it.

That leaves $2,500... not much if there is an engine issue.

Not judging, just believe I would want more info prior to condemnation to the mechanic.
 
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