ADS-B Mandate
- Thread starter skywagon8a
- Start date
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I went back and looked further at the Navworx ADS600-EXP. It does have an option of also receiving 1090 with a hardware addition and a future software update. It also specifies for experimental and LSA only. That could be a problem which I have no issues with installing in my plane but if I were to sell it, then what? Web and Steve Pierce how do we overcome this issue paperwork wise? I'd like to keep it legal.
If it's good enough for experimental, how does any other ADS-B transceiver know what certification basis the airplane in which it is mounted is? A radio wave is a radio wave.
If it's good enough for experimental, how does any other ADS-B transceiver know what certification basis the airplane in which it is mounted is? A radio wave is a radio wave.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I don't understand why a Lansair IVP can fly in the airspace with the experimental version but I have to pay extra money for the certified version in my Super Cub or wife's Tri-Pacer. I have asked myself what are the ramifications if I install as a minor modification?
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
As Mr Spock would say. "Illogical!"
Jim Hann
FRIEND
Ballwin, MO
Except ATC doesn't have the authority to tell you to turn off your ADS-B out. This came to light during after the OSH notam was published. So the ATIS had to state that.
Cub Builder
MEMBER
North Central AR
Only problem here is that if you turn off your Mode-C transponder, your ADS-B out loses it's pressure altitude and squawk code if you're on UAT (although it will send pressure altitude), or it simply goes away if you are on 1090 ES. Makes it kind of useless, but when you're in the congo line to land, that's not the time to have your head down looking at a scope. These guys are close enough that you need to look out the window, soon to be a diminished skill.
-Cub Builder
-Cub Builder
Cub Builder
MEMBER
North Central AR
You can thank the FAA and their implementation of Part 23 for that. The same applies to many things. My Experimental is happy flying on dual P-mags, but you can't fly your Tripacer with them. Automotive spark plugs won't run in your TriPacer either even though they happily fire away in my Experimentals. When I covered my E-AB SuperCub, I used the paint of my choice over top of the dopes. It looks good and worked just great, but apparently won't work on your TriPacer. Hopefully things will improve with the rewrite of Part 23, which is only a few years overdue from the FAA. It is possible that we may be able to make a choice to have our personal aircraft designated as "Non-commercial" which would allow us the leeway to use non-PMA and non-TSO instrumentation and parts. But this is really a subject for a different thread.
To answer the question (which you already know), the ramification would be the same as if you put Pmags on your Tripacer as a minor mod. It would work just fine, but you're at the FAA's mercy following an accident.
-Cub Builder
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
In this case, I believe that the choices are to pay for a 'legal' unit or install the 'experimental' as a minor. The installation itself (of either) is legal as a minor mod. The bind will be if there is a fed inquisition that finds that you have an uncertified unit, as the reg specifically states that for certified aircraft the unit must meet a couple of TSO's. In operation, no one will be able to tell the difference between the 'legal' and experimental (just like you cant tell the difference between TSO'd and non-TSO'd nav lights). I believe txpacer is right about the slim chances of a field approval as the per the TSO requirements and the availability of certified stuff.
Web
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I found it. I got the two model numbers mixed up. The certified unit is a base price of $1999. Not too bad. The experimental is $1399. Back to the drawing board.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
A transponder is integral for 1090 and 978 systems both. So if you're in airspace requiring ADS-B then, by default, you need a transponder.
Web
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
The FAA seems to be making it up as they go along.
Another good reason to put off ADS-B installation until closer to the drop-dead date.
This time it's the GPS receivers, but I seem to recall that the frequency requirements were changed after originally being issued also.
Another good reason to put off ADS-B installation until closer to the drop-dead date.
This time it's the GPS receivers, but I seem to recall that the frequency requirements were changed after originally being issued also.
Scooter7779h
PATRON
Anchorage, Alaska
I love mine. FAA $500 check in mail. Really improves coverage in Foreflight. Not much $ to upgrade. I already had Stratus 2S, so Apparro ESB & interconnect cable (optional but provides constant power to 2S) was all that was needed. I can still take 2S to another plane & have ADSB IN.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
spinner2
MEMBER
Montana
I'm wondering if someone could explain how the UAT Out system works? I understand Out through a ES transponder but the UAT Out isn't clear to me. I realize that a WAAS GPS is needed but I've read somewhere that a Mode C transponder could be linked with the approved GPS and work as an Out solution. Is this correct?
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
In a nutshell, ADS-B out is a transponder signal, with an ID and position signal 'piggy backing' out of the same antenna. If you have a transponder with RS-232 data lines, you can PROBABLY (some will work, some will not) build an ADS-B out system with it. Connect the UAT box to the transponder via the 232 lines and connect a WAAS enable GPS signal to the UAT via 232 or 429 data lines. Some UAT boxes have a WAAS GPS built in to simplify installation.
When the ADS-b signal is called for, The GPS sends the location fix to the UAT box, which sends that location and an aircraft ID to the transponder, which sends all this information out the antenna.
Web
spinner2
MEMBER
Montana
That triggers the memory on the RS-232 port. Thanks. Do you know if the Becker 4401 has an RS-232 port? I have this transponder in the Cub and if I decide to go with an Out on this plane I'm looking at options.
In the Cessna I'm installing a Garmin GTX 335 as the Out. And for an In solution I have a Garmin 796 that I move easily from one plane to the other. And the GDL 39 3D is coming with the GTX 335. That portability plus the 3D Bluetooth output to the 796 providing attitude information seemed like a better In compromise than the GTX 345 transponder which sends the Out along with Bluetoothed In to a 796 but no attitude data or transfer to another plane.
The FAA $500 rebate and Garmin's current $100 rebate on the GDL portables come close to paying for this In solution too since I already had the 796.
I do understand the In limitations without an Out transponder in the Cub.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
The Becker ATC 4401 transponder uses two channels of RS 422 data in/out. You should still be able to use it but your UAT will need to be compatible with 422 data. Also remember that 'OUT' needs to be blessed, certified, anointed, massaged, and generally thought highly of by the feds (TSO'd). 'IN' does not have to be. So you have tons of options to display 'IN' information.
Web
Web
gdafoe
FRIEND
Castle Well Airpark SE of Wickenburg AZ
"In the Cessna I'm installing a Garmin GTX 335 as the Out."
spinner2, Which model of the 335 are you installing? Do you have to use the one with the GPS to be legal?
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding all the details of the requirements.
spinner2, Which model of the 335 are you installing? Do you have to use the one with the GPS to be legal?
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding all the details of the requirements.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
If you have a WAAS enabled GPS already installed, you can use that as your position source. If not, you'll have to install a Waas GPS or install an ADS-B system with a WAAS GPS built in.
Web
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Yes you could use them for position and no they are not legal for certified. For certified, you need a 'legal' GPS source. If you have something like a GNS 430 (just an example) installed, that would be a legal WAAS GPS source for a certified aircraft system.
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
As far as I know, experimental is still in the real world.
Web
Web
spinner2
MEMBER
Montana
Hi Gerald,
I am installing the GTX 335 with GPS. It has to be a WAAS GPS as Web points out. And this is a certified airplane and I have no other WAAS source.
I think Garmin's sales specifications state that the GDL 39 has a GPS with WAAS accuracy but I think they stop short of calling it a WAAS.
gdafoe
FRIEND
Castle Well Airpark SE of Wickenburg AZ
Interesting. Heres what they say "[FONT="]When using Garmin Pilot on your mobile device, the GDL 39 can provide highly accurate WAAS GPS data, while the GDL 39 3D can also provide backup attitude indication and SVX™ synthetic vision view."
But on the Aera 660 in the specs this is what they say[/FONT]
But on the Aera 660 in the specs this is what they say[/FONT]
- "SBAS/WAAS/GLONASS receiver: high-sensitivity with WAAS position accuracy"
