SC vs. 7GCBC ?

[skywagon8a]

When you own your own, it is always ready when and for how long you want it. No one else has it out beating it up. A rental is subject to other bookings and weather. It is not unusual for your particular booking to be weathered out or the previous renter getting back late, shutting you out of your period. Then what? You may go for months of frustrations and then finally give up.

Buy the plane and enjoy! You will not regret it.

 

[TurboBeaver]

Like Glen and Pete say just buy it and fly the heck outta it, if your going thru with it get someone that really knows Champs,,,,, old Joe Stanger up in Willow (Eyak Avaition) to do a pre buy on it and he would know how to really look the spars over correctly, (not to say there isnt dozens more mechanics right around there that could do it just as well) as that airplane at $35K is a decent buy ;IF the spars are NOT cracked, however, if they are ?? Your looking at $13/15,000 more to cover those wings, with new spars in lower 48, not sure on Alaska price, At the moment, but you need to address that issue FIRST !!! As that turns a good deal into a bad deal rather quickly!
Good luck
E

 

[skywagon8a]

As Turbo mentions, this AD note applies to the wood wing spars. http://www.aeroncapilots.com/98CE121AD.htm Make sure that you have this properly checked before you buy the plane.

 

[DENNY]

I want to repeat, DO NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH A PLANE UNTIL YOU HAVE A COMPLETE INSPECTION BY YOUR IA. You can easily spend 20-30 grand getting the good deal aircraft into the air. I spent 6 mo looking at planes and ended up with a pacer for my first plane. I bought the plane before I took a single lessen and sold it 400 hours latter. I put some money into it but came out ahead as far as renting goes. There is a lot of hard flying up here when you get off fixed runways. It is going to take some time to get the hang of it, there is a date on your drivers lic that tells you why:lol: You have a very good chance of bending a plane in the first couple hundred hours especially if you are doing a lot off runway work so if you have a bit cheaper one it won't hurt as bad. Just find any solid taildragger and fly it, once you get the hang of it you can upgrade to you dream plane. On a side note if you do not have a hanger a metal plane is a lot easier to take care of than a fabric one in the winter. Frost and ice on the wings can be melted off with a red dragon, you can't do that with a fabric plane. I know a lot of pacer drivers that are outside and fly all winter long but it seems the pacer guys are just tougher than the rest.8)
DENNY

 

[TurboBeaver]

Lol,
Now thats funny Denny, your sounding like Eddie Trimmer in Willow! Been a while since I flew a straight Pacer on pavement in a good gusty
Stiff Xwind, but unless my memory fails me your feet better not be asleep!!

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Take the bushwheels off and learn on small tires. The bushwheels will make
You sloppy

 

[TurboBeaver]

Yea plus as soon as you take those big tires off , your going to be going so much "further on the ground" you will get tons more experience trying to take off !!!! That will extend your takeoff from a couple hundred feet to 350 and only takes a few minutes to accomplish all that!!! You will have marginal prop clearance, and plane will look pretty " squatted and lowly" . Really is a shame Champion hadn't built all the Citabrias right from the get go with Scout gear legs instead of their original idea that they wanted the gear wide and LOW to contend with higher crosswinds,they obviously felt the market was for the airplane to be used on payment runways ??? However its really too bad, Scout length gear legs, simply hadn't been an option, when you bought a new Citabrias back in the mid 60s ! When they finally got away from the Oleo gear.................... oh well that's the way it all went down . For what its worth a GCBC with Scout gear legs works perfectly on 8:50 tires and amazed me all the places it easily handled with the outradious travel of that spring steel gear. Still rocketed along at a great airspeed. From memory my buddys flew at 110/115ish mph with 26" Goodyears with his 74/56 prop , and 105/110mph on Landes 2500 skis! He had the 80" prop on it with skis as well and it seams like 100mph seams right; but that was 20 years ago so those figures may be generous. However it still landed right at 40 ish with the wings squared off out to the end of the spars, and the Scout wingtips. Got off all day long with the 80" prop, in couple hundred feet or less , Overall it made a Very nice machine........................

 

[Super11XP]

http://youtu.be/geUsw7MXWyI

Here is a video that my wife took yesterday of my 150 hp champ. I'll admit that I'm not a pro at slipping, but when your already dragging it in and low, I'm not sure how it would help slow you down.
I built a new door for it with 1/2 X 1/2" aluminum square tubing. It weighs 6.5 lbs installed. I'll try to post a pic of it.

 

[DENNY]

Turbobeaver
Ya we call that footwork the pacer dance!! I really liked the 29in bush wheels on my pacer. All my friends said how much better I was landing once I had them on. I told them my landings still sucked the bush wheels just sucked up all my mistakes and made me look good.
The mighty pacer is a great starter plane, If I lost my cub I would go back to a pacer in a heartbeat.
DENNY

 

[TurboBeaver]

Denny,
Another one thats a tricky bugger is the little Luscome Silvare, rudder pedals are so tiny and close togeather, can be a handful on pavement
If you get your boots onto both pedals at the same time! My dad called the pacer dance , "the doubleshuffle" !
The Helio is a bit€h if you let it get ahead of you.......... it can pass you your as* anytime you dont pay very close attention to it!

 

[cubdriver2]

Jeeeeeeeeez..............a Pacer tracked like a Skyhawk after cutting my teeth in a Vagabond..:lol:

Glenn

 

[TurboBeaver]

Once again a picture is worth a thousand words..............If you installed a set of low gear legs that gave any airplane, the same AOA as these pictures are showing the green or blue airplanes, It would certainly ruin any stol charteristics it may of once had for takeoff performance............................. you don't need to be an aeronautical engineer, to see whats wrong here, a super cub set up this same way, would be a total pig, if it had to try to operate off this low of a gear height. This is the reason so many guys come up with these storys of a Citabrias poor performance. Its all right there in this picture. Jack the front of it up with gear legs, or big tires, like the Red airplane, and you have a totally different animal. Here is two pictures of the same plane, one with the low oleo gear, one with low spring gear, and one with the correct Scout gear for STOL takeoffs.There is no comparison in how they work. light or loaded. The red plane will get off in half the distance, and can be operated in rough places, that would literally tear the old Oleo gear right off, the blue Citabria ............. so if your going to compare em, make sure you compare to the red airplane...............................

 

[Cub junkie]

Not good for STOL but a nice gear to fly. My dad had several early Citabria's in his pipeline patrol fleet, similar N numbers with the airplane in the pic. N11022,N11071. One was a lyc powered and the other was cont powered. The cont powered was 90 pounds lighter than the 0235 airplane and flew better.

 

[TurboBeaver]

Seams like I have heard that same thing on here somewhere about Lyc powered cubs and continental powered ones ????8) Lot of folks like the way the lighter cubs feel............................
Here is a great example of good prop clearance!

 

[kase]

Few years ago at New Holstein there was a stol demo with a Scout in it. Tape measure wasn't long enough.

 

[TurboBeaver]

Kase,
Lol, good point on a Scout you saw at New Holsten! Wonder if they are all that bad ? Hey just for fun Got a quick question for you on SC vs Scouts? Forget about flying with 5gals of gas, 4qts of oil, leaving the sectional in the truck and shaving your legs, before you take off, and lets try a real world comparision on these two planes. Hopefully you have flown a Scout, so you can respond to this from actual experence?
Anyway my question to you my friend is this, lets take both airplanes and start chucking moosemeat into them till we can roll them both up Onto a set of scales so they both weigh exactly 2000 lbs so we are comparing apples to apples, so lets saddle up and find out what your best guess ,at how much room Its going to take to get off, at 60 degrees say 500ft elev ?? (Going to need that long tape measure again? )Now thats ONE number for getting" off"? Now how about getting "out" ??? So lets say there is a ridge your going to need to get over about a mile off the end of the runway, that is say 600 ft higher than the runway, how would You, as a seasoned Cub pilot feel about your rate of climb at 2000 lbs approaching the ridge ?How do you think it would compare to that Scouts, about the timeYou arrived at the backside of that ridge and started to catch some down drafts? Think your PA18 will out climb that old Scout with them both right at one ton??? How about a Husky? Think you could out climb him at a ton???
Looking forward to hearing your response.................... when you get this stuff into proper perspective one soon realizes, one is not in New Holsten anymore........
Kase nothing will beat a cub off the ground but another cub, thats a fact. Unfortunately most times that is only ONE part of the whole equation

 

[RaisedByWolves]

The later model scouts are pretty heavy empty. Usually a few hundred more than a comparable super cub.. But they are so roomy inside.

 

[TurboBeaver]

Tom,
They are heavy empty, I think American Champion has built some up for water bombers, with much bigger tailfeathers, that have a 2500 gross weight! However they all seam to climb like a homesick angel!
E

 

[skywagon8a]

I have only flown two 8GCBCs (Scout) on wheels briefly. One with a fixed pitch seaplane prop and the other with a constant speed prop. My impression was that they were doggy taking off with the c/s doing better. Actually the impression was that a stock 7GCBC was better. However after putting the fixed pitch one on floats, it was a different ball game. That one would get out like gang busters, Even when checking out it's 250+ pound owner.

 

[kase]

Wow, think i touched a nerve. The Scout, Husky and a 7GCBC will out run a cub in a cruise climb, but so will a C172. Just reporting what I saw. My 7GCBC, 8GCBC experience is limited to towing banners and giving primary instruction in them. Have not hauled any moose. Every time i fly them all I can think is what a dog. Flew a Scout alot about 15 years ago. Seems to me the flaps are limited to 27 degrees? We went in and changed the last notch to get more travel like a 7GCBC. Would like to fly a Scout with a 2 blade MT prop. Put a 2 blade MT on the Husky I fly every week and it made a big difference.

Your example has some flaws. You want to load a cub 250 over gross and compare it to a Scout thats a 150 under gross. In that example the cub is carrying 600 lbs of cargo and the scout 300 lbs. The cub is carrying twice as much on 30 less hp. If the landing zone is good enough to get a Scout in and out you might as well use a skywagon and then you would have something.

 

[tptailwheel]

I agree with kase, nice airplane, NOT a cub. I don't claim to have a ton of time in them but that was my impression also, one thing you need to know is if Kase flew any plane he would definitely wring it out. It pays to know who you are talking to on the Internet, he would be one of the first people I would call with questions about how any airplane handles, he knows. He also likes beagles because of his deep seated hatred for rabbits. In other words don't mess with a guy that hates rabbits, lives in the Wild West. He would also be my first call if I had a rabbit problem.

 

[Randy]

I agree with kase, nice airplane, NOT a cub. I don't claim to have a ton of time in them but that was my impression also, one thing you need to know is if Kase flew any plane he would definitely wring it out. It pays to know who you are talking to on the Internet, he would be one of the first people I would call with questions about how any airplane handles, he knows. He also likes beagles because of his deep seated hatred for rabbits. In other words don't mess with a guy that hates rabbits, lives in the Wild West. He would also be my first call if I had a rabbit problem.

I don't think he likes Wiley E. very much either..
He's another one of those Montana boys that knows a thing or two about Cubs.....heck he even flys a C-180 like a cub...and wins contests.

 

[8GCBC]

I thank the Dear Lord that I have a Scout rather than a "Cub" (whatever a Cub is?). Makes me laugh every time I see a "Cub" flying, landing, even tied down and think that could of been me.

 

[Cub junkie]

This is a Cub board. I wouldn't expect any cub snobs to have nice words about any other brand of airplane on the cub forum. I don't go on the camaro forum and talk about mustangs, you would get the same response.

 

[sodak]

 

[cubdriver2]

This is as I wouldn't expect any cub snobs to have nice words about any other brand of airplane on the cub forum. I don't go on the camaro forum and talk about mustangs, you would get the same response.

My first car was a 66 Mustang 289 convertable. I had 2 68 camaros, a 327 RS and a 302 Z28. Damn I miss those Camaros.

Glenn

 

[Cub junkie]

My first car was a 66 Mustang 289 convertable. I had 2 68 camaros, a 327 RS and a 302 Z28. Damn I miss those Camaros.

Glenn

I used to get excited about real Z28's. Now I get more pleasure out of seeing an original PA11. Guess getting old does that to ya'

 

[TurboBeaver]

Post Thanks / Like

"I got a couple hundred hours towing banners with one. I always thought they were kind of a pig. If your going to fly out of 1500 ft grass strips they would be ok."

Kase, above is your post from 2006, back at the start of this thread, it sounds like your opinion hasnt changed much, lol
If that is your opinion, thats great, and regardless of what Your compadres think of you
Being the "hot stick" of the wild west, if your idea of a gcbc is its a pig and would only be
An airplane that would be practical out of a 1500ft strip, I guess my response to that is ,
Your knowledge of what one will actually do ,is obviously certainly very limited.....................
And as far as" another Montana boy that knows a thing or two about cubs" , Randy you have repeated
That sooooooooooo many times on here, it is loosing its effectiveness, it is obvious to all this is
A cub site, and thats great, we all love cubs , including me. I have flown them for 40 years now, as
A commercial pilot . And I actually also have a vague idea what they are capable of doing, however I also
Can see merit in some of the other aircraft i have been able to fly and work over those 40 years to include -Skywagons, Otters, Beavers, Helios, Maules, and of course Citabrias.
If you dont like them, good for you. Your opinion of them appears to be a popular one on this site, so
Your obviously on good solid Ice on here on the SC website! ...................

 

[kase]

I guess I stand corrected:roll:

 

[Dave Calkins]

I thank the Dear Lord that I have a Scout rather than a "Cub" (whatever a Cub is?). Makes me laugh every time I see a "Cub" flying, landing, even tied down and think that could of been me.

��
pretty balsy thing to say here.....even for you..

kindof equal to laughing at a surfer carrying a pipeline gun as he walks up the beach at pipe.......while you tell your group of bro's that you'd rather own a log.....or even a performance longboard..

really...there is no comparison between the two (cub/scout) when it comes to the roughest, toughest, shortest work.

....and a pipeline board does pipe better and safer and smoother and smarter than anything else.....dont even talk about bodyboarders....i have been there........................we could compare supercubs to something like powered parachutes and the analogy would be complete.

thats my opinion..and....I like it.
......and I like Kases also.