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Skywagon Back Seats?

S

StuBob

MEMBER
Indianapolis
I'm shopping Skywagons and have a quick question (maybe two) about fifth and sixth seats.

If I buy a 180/185 with 4 seats, is it possible to buy and install 5th and 6th seats? Are there limitations as to model years, etc?

Thanks in advance. Great site, etc!

Stu F.
Indianapolis
 
3 window 180s (model G and later) are certified for 6 seats, as are all 185s. Most of us have lost the third row bench seats along the way. They weren't good for much more than as punishment for small children, and not easy to get in or out of. I gave my third row seat to a friend with a 185 who had small kids. Never missed it.

Third row seats are bought and sold like all used parts. You can find them if you look. Consider who you'll put back there and how they'll egress in an emergency. You might change your mind about wanting one.
 
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I happen to have a dog and small grandchildren!

Am I correct in assuming 4 adults and 2 kids is a mission much better suited to a 205/206?
 
206s are great airplanes. U206s lack a front passenger door and the aft door can be problematic in emergencies. In normal use that cargo door is fantastic. Wipaire has a passenger door STC but you don't see many of them.
 
OLDCROWE said:
I grew up in the third row of a 210 but I wouldn't put my dog in the third row of my 180!
Click to expand...

I will make kids do lots of stuff that I won't make my dog do!

That said- if you are looking to haul more than you and three, 206, Cherokee 6 or the like. Sort of like the third seat in the cub- you can... would you want to?
 
StuBob said:
I happen to have a dog and small grandchildren!

Am I correct in assuming 4 adults and 2 kids is a mission much better suited to a 205/206?
Click to expand...

unless you want to go quite a bit larger/more expensive, a 205/206 will serve that function nicely. Egress concerns can be dealt with via some training, and are more of an issue if you'll be on floats.

i for one would NEVER put a human in the fifth or sixth seat in a Skywagon. I'd have to think long and hard before I put a dog back there, for a lot of reasons, of which comfort and egress are just two.

206 is a wonderful airplane, and for the crew you're describing, is a FAR better machine than a 180/185 would be. And, yes I've flown both a fair bit.

MYV
 
I've had a 180 and now have a 185f and like all above don't use the third seat opt. I have found the 185 and 180 to be excellent four passenger airplane for my uses, that can be different dependant on the mission. If you wish to haul a lot of bags/ cargo a pod would be nice. Just a note on the whip right side door for the 206, I was working on one today that had the mod and during a discussion on I was told it cost $25,000.00. Please note this was hangar talk but I would guess that the fellow that told me that has pushing 20,000 hrs of 206, would be close on the money.
A 206 with 850x6 nose tire and 29x11x10 mains will go just about everywhere a 185 will go, but it doesn't look as cool,lol. There both great planes keep researching and find the one that meets your mission best. Good luck and enjoy.
 
aktango58 said:
I will make kids do lots of stuff that I won't make my dog do!

That said- if you are looking to haul more than you and three, 206, Cherokee 6 or the like. Sort of like the third seat in the cub- you can... would you want to?
Click to expand...
I watched four adults climb out of a Mooney after landing. Then the pilot opened the cargo door and four children climbed out. That was long ago, so my memory may be wrong. It may have been five adults and four children? :evil:
 
algonquin said:
A 206 with 850x6 nose tire and 29x11x10 mains will go just about everywhere a 185 will go, but it doesn't look as cool,lol. There both great planes keep researching and find the one that meets your mission best. Good luck and enjoy.
Click to expand...


I have heard that before:lol:. Once every day for 2 weeks flying next to a 206 with said tires, and I just had an old 57 180 on 26" gar aeros, and me not being the best stick around.

Well, after I had flown three loads off a certain sand bar back to town and had 1.5 to go the 206 figured he would come finish it off for me:wink: in one load:oops:

A few hours later I returned to finish my intended loads, plus the stuff the pilot took out of the 206 so he could even taxi.:banghead:

So if your mission is working soft short strips- leave the nose wheel at home please. If you want to carry family members in a SAFE manner, I really do like the A-36 Bonanza!
 
A good driver in a properly equipped 206 can do some pretty amazing short field stuff. An 850 on the nose rolls easier than a tailwheel on a Skywagon. With a little throttle that nose wheel is out of the goo instantly, which sets up a high AOA, perfect for short and soft ops. My tailwheel? Not so much. But that's on the extreme side. For regular use both are great airplanes. But the question was about 6 seats. Go sit in the back of both planes. There is no question which is the winner for back seat comfort.
 
aktango58 said:
I If you want to carry family members in a SAFE manner, I really do like the A-36 Bonanza!
Click to expand...

Warning: Excessive personal detail follows

What started all this was a recent flight in Alaska with four adults and an infant in a 182. I came home and realized that wouldn't work in my V35B Bonanza and it won't work for long in the 182. "Aha!" I said, "This is my excuse to get the Skywagon I've always wanted." But if Skywagons are realistically 4-person airplanes, the passenger mission isn't served a whole lot better than the V-tail will do it. An A36 would fill the bill pretty well, but I don't want to go to the effort of finding, buying, and selling only to wind up with a stodgier version of what I have. For continued 4-seat travel combined with short-strip fun, I'd be better off keeping the Bonanza and supplementing with a Citabria or some such. For six-seat travel, I'd likely have to look at a 206 or even a Cherokee 6.

Thanks. I appreciate the insight here.
 
A 206 is a wonderful plane. Find one with an IO 550, and you'll have an ass kicking mobile that will out haul a 185 and takeoff short to boot. But a stock 206 is a great plane as well.

The right side side door is indeed expensive....and it's a serious mod.

It really does sound as if a good 206 would fit your mission nicely. I flew 185s for years. We were getting a different plane, and I got out voted, so the "new" plane was a 206. I wasn't happy......till I had 50 hours or so in it. Then I grew to love that plane.
 
stewartb said:
A good driver in a properly equipped 206 can do some pretty amazing short field stuff. An 850 on the nose rolls easier than a tailwheel on a Skywagon. With a little throttle that nose wheel is out of the goo instantly, which sets up a high AOA, perfect for short and soft ops. My tailwheel? Not so much. But that's on the extreme side. For regular use both are great airplanes. But the question was about 6 seats. Go sit in the back of both planes. There is no question which is the winner for back seat comfort.
Click to expand...

While I agree with everything stated above, there is the history and scientific fact that a sunken tailwheel on any Skywagon series will lift with thrust and eventually come out of the muck, on landing it will slow you down but not tend to push you over. The nose wheel on a 206 may eventually lift with enough thrust, but can also tend to dig down as your prop pulls forward prior to enough lift. On landing with no thrust a digging nose wheel causes situations like the recent pictures from the Homer pilots- beach 3.

Without knowing your daily use, or how often you want 6 seats, one suggestion is to rent when you need that much room if it is a few times a year, then have the smaller plane to fly for yourself.

Just realize that the 206 is a great bird, but has limits well before the 180/185 in landing areas... as the Cherokee 6 has limitations before the 206, and Bonanza does really well, but only allows smaller tires.

We need multiple airplanes!
 
Considering you live in Indiana (assume you are on paved runways often), did not mention floats and probably have no use for ski's, I would also suggest a 206 may be a better fit for your mission than a Skywagon. I have a 185 that I dearly love, it is dandy on floats, but considering a Skywagon's cabin is 4 inches narrower than a 206 and if I used the pavement a lot and wanted to haul 6 people, it would be traded off in a heartbeat for a 206.
 
The A-36 is a much nicer plane to fly than a 206.

A good Cherokee Six and a citabria might be less money than a good 206.

But again, buy a two seat fun plane and rent when you need 6 seats!
 
So much common sense on this site. On another site I frequent, the advice would be "You should just get a Beaver!"

Thanks, guys!
 
StuBob said:
If I buy a 180/185 with 4 seats, is it possible to buy and install 5th and 6th seats? Are there limitations as to model years, etc?
Click to expand...
If the 180/185 came from Cessna originally with 4 seats the back seat would have a higher backrest than if it came from Cessna with the 6 seat option. If the 5/6 seat was discarded along the way the remaining 3/4 seat could be rather uncomfortable depending on the model year. The original 4 seat option is much more comfortable than the middle seat in the 6 seat option.
 
Is that one with the M-14p engine in it? That is a great motor and with a few mods the oil burn/ leaking problem can be cured for the most part. The only big thing is how far forward the round knob goes when cruising, fuel burn can be substantial, but again 360hp is a bunch.
 
I've got a buddy building a moose with the M14 in it, and I can't wait for it to be done. Of course I have another buddy with a 206 Amphib for sale too.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
A friend has a Moose. Best performing float plane I've ever seen, and that was before Barrett built his new motor and Whirlwind built his new prop. He delivered my newest outboard that wouldn't fit in my Skywagon. Airplane to boat. Very cool. VERY cool airplane!
 
Cessna 185 rear seat

stewartb said:
A friend has a Moose. Best performing float plane I've ever seen, and that was before Barrett built his new motor and Whirlwind built his new prop. He delivered my newest outboard that wouldn't fit in my Skywagon. Airplane to boat. Very cool. VERY cool airplane!
Click to expand...
I am looking for a 5th and 6th seat for my Cessna 185 E, anyone know where I can get one ?
 
stewartb said:
A friend has a Moose. Best performing float plane I've ever seen, and that was before Barrett built his new motor and Whirlwind built his new prop. He delivered my newest outboard that wouldn't fit in my Skywagon. Airplane to boat. Very cool. VERY cool airplane!
Click to expand...

Try landing one on amphibs in a crosswind.......not enough rudder.

MTV
 
Lots of great advice already stated.

Why do you want the Skywagon, other than an impassioned experience in the Great Land? Not being a naysayer, as I went with a 180 after looking carefully at what I felt might work for my mission(s). As has been stated, they are narrower than most 182's (early 182's were narrow as well) -- think 172 width! They are harder to use for "must get there" tarmac-based destinations, and they are quite a bit more $$ for much of the same capability you'd get in the 182 or 206/7 platforms. The last bit of performance in particular conditions that the Skywagon may give you is a very steep dollar for return ratio when all things are considered in comparison with a similarly equipped 182. Unless, that is, you wish to be on skis or floats...

That said, I think you'll find CG management considerably easier with the Cessna's unless compared with the A36. Aft-loading issues are much less prone in these Skywagons than the short body Bo's.

I left a Beechcraft and its sweet handling because it didn't go into short strips in high density altitudes with three people and a week's worth of gear (cargo pod). Perhaps you might take some rides in Skywagons and see if you're willing to give up the Bonanza handling. When comparing your typical flight, would you rather be in the pickup or the sports car?

StuBob said:
Warning: Excessive personal detail follows

What started all this was a recent flight in Alaska with four adults and an infant in a 182. I came home and realized that wouldn't work in my V35B Bonanza and it won't work for long in the 182. "Aha!" I said, "This is my excuse to get the Skywagon I've always wanted." But if Skywagons are realistically 4-person airplanes, the passenger mission isn't served a whole lot better than the V-tail will do it. An A36 would fill the bill pretty well, but I don't want to go to the effort of finding, buying, and selling only to wind up with a stodgier version of what I have. For continued 4-seat travel combined with short-strip fun, I'd be better off keeping the Bonanza and supplementing with a Citabria or some such. For six-seat travel, I'd likely have to look at a 206 or even a Cherokee 6.

Thanks. I appreciate the insight here.
Click to expand...
 
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