Polyfiber Paint question

[MarkT]

First things: Long time listener, first time caller. To this point, I've been able to answer my questions by reading your past posts, so Thanks for that! Until now.

My Dad and I are recovering his Super Cub with the Polyfiber system. Everything is going well, except for a bit of advice we got from the area distributor: They said the Polytone paint didn't adhere to aluminum surfaces that well and suggested using the Aero-thane on aluminum surfaces and Polytone on the fabric. We had planned on using Polytone on the entire plane. Has anyone heard of this claim before? Any had experiences like this? Thanks for your help.

 

[Crash]

He is correct.

Crash

 

[Roger Peterson]

Crash is right. It does not work.

 

[Mark Lund]

I had a bad experience with poly tone on aluminum that I didn't prep properly. But, I've had great results on 3 cubs where I did prep according to the Polytone manual.

I first etch and alodine the bare aluminum, then prime using the polytone epoxy primer.

Next, while the primer is still tacky I'll shoot the first color coat of polytone onto the tacky primer.

The polytone on the aluminum has the same "sheen" as on the fabric. I understand that when using aerothane on aluminum and polytone on the fabric some people add a flatner to the aerothane to give it the "satin" finish look of polytone.

After this cures for 5-7 days, I forget exactly what the manual says for cure time, I scuff sand very lightly and shoot the rest of my finish coat or coats.

Compared to some other systems it may be more labor intensive and you do need to allow the epoxy primer time to cure. So there are draw backs to this method.

I like it because I'm not comfortable with the safety aspects of coatings like aerothane, imron, etc. I do use a supplied air mask and plenty of shop ventilation when spraying the epoxy. I use a normal paint respirator when doing the other polytone coatings.

This works for me but as they say, "results may vary........"

Mark

 

[NimpoCub]

I've been reading up on PolyTone too, and (in the AC-Spruce catalog, p.321) it sez that if you "suitably prime" the aluminum that you CAN use the PolyTone. Makes sense, but I haven't seen just WHAT you do to properly prep.

That would be a GoodThing. (TM Martha)

Does anyone here know/remember how much fabric & paint/primer to buy for a SuperCub??

 

[Roger Peterson]

Never tried that Mark, think I will do it on the next one and see how it works. Would sure give a more even look.

 

[Mark Lund]

Quantities of material to cover a cub from the Poly Fiber manual

fabric 45 yds

Poly tac glue 1 gal

Poly brush 10 gal

Poly spray 11 gal

Reducer 8.5 gal

Poly tone 10 gal

This doesn't include any primer etc to prep the metal parts. In my experience the quantities are close depending on your technique and how many "oh Sh*T! moments you have.

Mark

 

[RedEye]

What Mark Lund said !!

The aluminum parts I prepped properly(say that fast three times) have held up great to the oil, blowby, gas, washing, ..etc. Now the few things that I did in haste in order to get back to flying did not fair as well. If done as they recommend, Polytone will last and hold up just fine !!!

 

[RedEye]

I've been reading up on PolyTone too, and (in the AC-Spruce catalog, p.321) it sez that if you "suitably prime" the aluminum that you CAN use the PolyTone. Makes sense, but I haven't seen just WHAT you do to properly prep.

That would be a GoodThing. (TM Martha)

Does anyone here know/remember how much fabric & paint/primer to buy for a SuperCub??

Nimpo,

First thing I would do is order the Poly-Fiber manual. It reads like the "for idiots" type manuals.... very easy to read and understand, even for me!! All the tricks, tips and techniques are clearly spelled out. And always good to have on hand when the time comes, and it will, to make that first fabric repair in your newly recovered baby !!

 

[Mark Lund]

From David Jarneson:

First thing I would do is order the Poly-Fiber manual. It reads like the "for idiots" type manuals.... very easy to read and understand, even for me!! All the tricks, tips and techniques are clearly spelled out. And always good to have on hand when the time comes, and it will, to make that first fabric repair in your newly recovered baby !!

Yep, one year, 110 hours, and I'm ready for my second fabric repair on my "new cub". Thank goodness poly tone and poly fiber are so easy to repair and touch up.

Mark

 

[NimpoCub]

Hey Mark, thanx for the shopping list already!! I'll add a bit for the "o-shat factor" & go w/that.

First thing I would do is order the Poly-Fiber manual. It reads like the "for idiots" type manuals....

The manual is on the list!! I've watched Ray's DVD a couple times, & that + the manual makes me feel quite confident. Doesn't appear to be rocket science, I think I'll just haft'a practice the spray techniques a bit before the final shoot(s).

The tough thing has been to learn all the proper jargon, I tried to order (& get help/advise) from the order-taker & she said basically... "I just take numbers". Some of the wording on the www & in the catalog is less than clear (to a noob).

When(ever) all my stuff gets here I'll start to have FUN!!

 

[RedEye]

My 1st repair came on the initial test flight. Didn't have all the interior panels in or the radio and electrical system in. When I knocked the hand-held off the dash it flipped over and the antenna went trough the belly fabric near the rear stick !! Was glad to get that out of the way, as I knew it was gonna happen sooner or later !!

 

[RedEye]

Hey Mark, thanx for the shopping list already!! I'll add a bit for the "o-shat factor" & go w/that.

First thing I would do is order the Poly-Fiber manual. It reads like the "for idiots" type manuals....

The manual is on the list!! I've watched Ray's DVD a couple times, & that + the manual makes me feel quite confident. Doesn't appear to be rocket science, I think I'll just haft'a practice the spray techniques a bit before the final shoot(s).

The tough thing has been to learn all the proper jargon, I tried to order (& get help/advise) from the order-taker & she said basically... "I just take numbers". Some of the wording on the www & in the catalog is less than clear (to a noob).

When(ever) all my stuff gets here I'll start to have FUN!!

Nimpo,

If I can do it, anyone can !! Any questions or if I can help just call . 218-969-3787.

 

[jgerard]

When painting metal you can mix polytone with the aerothane catylist 7:1 to make the polytone way more solvent and stain resistant. Rumor has it a lot of Ag guys would do this because of the harsh environment they worked in. This would be a good idea on tank covers, cowling, landing gear, ect. Problem is now you have added the cyanoacrylate to the paint and must use a fresh air system when spraying.

Jason

 

[pak]

I used polytone on the metal parts of my plane, as described by Mark. This was 12 years ago and there have been no peeling or any adhesion problems at all. My plane has been parked outside the whole time. I'd do it the same way again. Feel free to E-mail me if you have questions
Pete

 

[bipe215]

How many folks here brush their first Polybrush coat? If the next coat is sprayed, does it hide the brush marks? Thanks.

Steve G

 

[RedEye]

YES !!! Brush the first coat on liberally or you will have pin-hole problems throughout the process !! If done accordingly with the manual you will not see any brush marks !!

 

[Steve Pierce]

I always brush the first coat. Cub Crafters doesn't and Clyde smith says you don't have to but I talked to Jason the other night and he said he had a piece of fabric from a SC that was sprayed and the finish peeled right off. I have never been able to do that when the first coat was brushed on. A good brush and a little sanding and it looks great to me.

I have done like Mark and Pete with Polytone. Worked fine, it is softer than Aerothane and didn't wear as well but that is to be expected. The SC I fly is in white Polytone with the metal in Aerothane without any flattener and it isn't real noticeable to me.

 

[bob turner]

I did my first cover job in Stits, in 1968. They said ten gallons of this and eight of that, and I ordered it. I was a poor college student, but wanted to do it right. At eight bucks a gallon, I was going broke. After completing the cover job I gave a lot of paint away - I think I used less than half of what they called for. Their silver may have less solids now, I dunno - I only use dope, because I have no idea what toxins are lurking in the Poly stuff. And because it is still about half the cost. Unthinned.

 

[bipe215]

A friend just finished a Citabria in Polyfiber, and used about half of the silver they said he would need. He also used HVLP which cut down on material.

Steve G

 

[Fortysix12]

The manual recommends for the best polytone over metal adhesion to shoot it over thier curing expoxy primer. I'v used this techinque before and it works. One disadvantage is if you don't lay down a smooth primer then any imperfections show through. Regarding flatner and matching, I have had excellent results using Imron flatner with Aerothane. I use a 25% add and the results are a t tough polyurathane finish that has a satin finish. It actually suprised me how well in came out.

 

[MarkT]

Thanks!

Fellas, Thanks a bunch! As always, a bit of experience shared generates the confidence to jump in. But on the bad side, I'm probably going to be humping your collective legs for info until this thing flies! Thanks again,

Mark T

 

[harneymaki]

Re: Thanks!

I'm probably going to be humping your collective legs for info until this thing flies!

Now that's funny stuff!

 

[pak]

Polyester fabric, by nature, is very slippery. Not much will actually adhere to the fibers. The reason for brushing the first coat either polybrush or nitrate dope is to allow the fibers to be encapsulated by the first coat. This seals the fabric and also gives the successive coats something with which to adhere. Brushing the first coat produces the best results and coatings adhesion. If you have seen where large pieces of paint peel off leaving bare fabric the most common cause is lack of adhesion. Polyester from the mill also has a wax on the surface. It is best to remove prior to applying any coatings. Easiest way to wipe the non-glued areas with a mild solvent or thinner compatable with the process being used. This applies to the dope and polyfiber systems, I do not know about the other systems.
Pete