Novice Black Powder Hunting and Large Game

[Erik550c]

Hello, black powder novice here with some questions about hunting and defense. I want to use black powder to hunt large game, or at least to be protected from large animals while hunting small game. I want to buy the largest capacity, easiest to load, quickest firing, longest range black powder revolver (or any other type of black powder if I have to) gun that can kill elk, deer, and grizzly bears if possible. I don't know what it is, but I heard percussion black powder guns are the easiest to load. What antique revolver and caliber is the best for hunting and wild animal protection? Can any be fitted with a scope? I've been looking at .44's from Cabella, but I can't find any non-lead balls (for hunting in California where lead is becoming banned) that will work for it. I saw expensive .45 non-lead balls, but couldn't find a good .45 revolver. I am interested in a new reproduction antique Colt .45 revolver, but can't find it and cost is an issue. I am fine using lead for protection and cost efficiency for as long as it is legal, but is a .44 revolver going to cut it? I want a revolver for capacity and speed. Do I also need a .50 cal for stopping power (once again, I plan on only having black powder)? Is the Traditions Trapper .50 cal percussion pistol a good backup weapon/one shot grizzly kill gun? I don't have room for a rifle unless need be (my bag has an air rifle already for small game). If I had the money and room I wouldn't mind the Traditions Hawkens Woodsman .50 rifle. I want to use lead free ammo for game hunting, what are my options for powerful enough guns that will accept lead free munitions (and where can I buy the ammo)? I don't know anything about black powder cartridges (or Sabbots). Can black powder cartridges be used in any black powder revolver/pistol/rifle? Is there any way to fill my own cartridges w/ bullets without expensive machines?

Any recommendations would be helpful, I know that carrying black powder only isn't the best choice. Like I mentioned, hopefully there is one revolver that does it all. If not, hopefully a revolver and large caliber pistol can do the trick together.

Thanks again!

Erik550c

 

[scubber]

Erik,
I am not an expert on dangerous game, nor anything else Am replying to keep your tread "out there" in hopes someone that has expertise will add their 2 cents. You may have a totally different approach to what you are trying to do after going with someone and making some "smoke" . . before buying anything. You will find a Cap'n Ball Revolver has some definite limitations. Revolvers of the same cal, may "like" a different size ball/conical . .even though they are the same basic caliber. Many imports (Italy & Spain) will use .451 rd. ball, while a Ruger Remington mods. and a few others, a .457. These revolvers do not have a lot of knockdown due to weight of a ball, limited space in cylinder for pwder chg, and loss of pressure due to large gap between cylinder and barrel cone. Loading & cleaning one will also be an eye opener & save a page of details. A .44 will do rabbits, squirrels, and a wood chuck and the neighbors dog. But you would have to be close enough to a deer for a head shot, to actually down a deer. Yes a Walker's used to take down Buffalo, but at point blank range off a hoarse . .and no one ever says how many miles the Buffalo went after the cylinder was emptied into it. This size & weight of this piece if very limiting.

A single shot has no loss of energy, can be found in .54 rifled barrels (may found an old .58 laying around used), but single shots usually have a much longer barrel & a challenge to carry (size/shape & not loosing ramrod). Hunting and competing with muzzle loaders is great sport and challenging. But very different. Any firearm you are using for protection . . function & use of the same should be 2nd nature & with out thought . . .and as reliable as your are willing to bet your life. Larry C.

 

[algonquin]

Try alaska outdoor forum , there you will find what you are looking for. Just a note, single shot weapons for defense against bears is dumb, sorry but fact is fact. There is a diference between hunting and defense. Yes you can kill a bear with a black powder rifle but stopping a charging brn bear dif rent story. I carry a 375 H&H and worry if it's enough. Reinventing the wheel will make you as dead as the reinventers that have gone before you.
Ps as a fishing back up I carry a 454 . I guided in AK for 14 years.

 

[aktango58]

Well, I have limited experience with Black Powder, but did get the certification to teach the hunter safety course for it.

Black powder is an explosive. Black Powder substitute is not, but it still has the issue with needing to carry loose powder with you in containers, keep it dry/clean, cleaning your equipment every day- highly corrosive- and then the flat out loss of performance.

If you goal is to hunt in black powder hunts, you can not use a scope.

If you want personal protection from dangerous game, understand that we have come a long ways from black powder today. Cartridges today can be dropped into the water and still be good. We carry a box in the back of the plane where they get damp, dirty, but they still work a year later.

If you want to have protection, get modern equipment. If you want to shoot Black Powder, get that. But I would not suggest trying to have one for both.

 

[Erik550c]

Well, I have limited experience with Black Powder, but did get the certification to teach the hunter safety course for it.

Black powder is an explosive. Black Powder substitute is not, but it still has the issue with needing to carry loose powder with you in containers, keep it dry/clean, cleaning your equipment every day- highly corrosive- and then the flat out loss of performance.

If you goal is to hunt in black powder hunts, you can not use a scope.

If you want personal protection from dangerous game, understand that we have come a long ways from black powder today. Cartridges today can be dropped into the water and still be good. We carry a box in the back of the plane where they get damp, dirty, but they still work a year later.

If you want to have protection, get modern equipment. If you want to shoot Black Powder, get that. But I would not suggest trying to have one for both.

Thanks for the replies everyone. So a loaded black powder gun can't get wet at all? No shooting in the rain with a percussion? Can't drop the gun in water and shoot?

 

[photosfromabove]

Do black powder still use a flint to light off the powder like in the old movies? If so take a flint striker you use for lighting a oxygen acetylene torch ,dip it in water and see how it no longer sparks,

 

[Erik550c]

Do black powder still use a flint to light off the powder like in the old movies? If so take a flint striker you use for lighting a oxygen acetylene torch ,dip it in water and see how it no longer sparks,

On purpose I wouldn't buy a flintlock because of that issue. Percussion is a cap and ball design, but I don't know if it can be in the rain or dropped in water.

 

[photosfromabove]

I was buying some tools from an estate sale and son of deceased showed me his dads 303 British (rifle) I wasn't really in to it much told him no,couple weeks later he called me back,just wanted it out of the house because of kids or something,he even delivered it,anyway it came with over 200 rounds of 1942 ammo,I had to buy a clip for it,(holds 7 rounds) took it up in the Mts. shot about 10 rounds and not 1 misfire,so this old bolt action rifle with ammo that was about 65 years old at that time still made the dust pull up in about a 5' ark in front of the barrel,anyway only reason for me telling this event is that if you want something you can trust to fire just keep this kind of ammo in a sealed container if you're taking it with you and it will still work,mine has just been in a closet in a paper bag.Still have 200 rounds.
Gary

 

[Bowhuntr]

My father passed away two years ago & I inherited several black powder rifles & pistols. I have sold off the field quality weapons & will keep the collectables. As a teenager, we would go out and shoot paper. This was usually done in the woods near the family cabin during the winter. I was always uncomfortable with the amount of ricochets off trees. Personally I don't know of any advantages with black powder other than hunting seasons. There's a good reason why black powder has become a novelty.

 

[DENNY]

If you insist on black powder only than you may want to carry a big can of pepper spray as backup. One shot kill of any big game animal is not that hard if you put the shot in the right place. The real question is are you good enough to do it every time. Pick what you think will work and go to the range every time it rains and see how well it works. The big old flap holster will help protect the gun.
DENNY

 

[algonquin]

What Denny said plus the bio. Officer in Kodack told me that the big bears can still move after a killing shot for up to 10 mins. Well I'm here to tell you they can, shot one through the chest and he was still moving in the brush at least 5 mins. Later. When cleaning him the 300 gr. bullet was against the opposite hide, lung and heart pulped. All I can say is thanks god for having him run away instead of at me. He was standing broadside to me and the shot was in the pocket.
OK, that's all the bear stuff from me, now if there is a issue about having a firearm vs. non firearm ie black powder , maybe you might look for a double rifle though they may be cost prohibitive, I don't know about that. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[scubber]

To address the comment of a "flinter" not going off because they won't spark in the rain. Damp powder is the potential problem, a good lock/frizzen will spark just fine after being wet. Drop your percussion caps in the drink . .they ain't never gonna go off. My earlier comments were not to demean what muzzloades they can do .. experience & knowledge improves reliability. I'm still learning . .and still like the smell . . . having used them since a teenage. Moisture (gun oil or water) and lack of experience is a muzzle loader's biggest enemies. An experienced flint shooter can harvest and shoot competition in the rain. In poor conditions will they go off every time? No . .but in most . .with proper care. I have been fortunate to have harvested a fair amount of game in poor weather. My Mortimer has had more lbs of lead through it than most have shot in a civilian lifetime. Do I trust that gun . .yes . . would it be my first choice for remote personal protection against a "brown" . . no. That . . .after going through an average of 10-12 lbs. of GOEX per year for several years. Larry C.

 

[aktango58]

I think if your powder or caps were introduced to moisture you would not have a reliable firearm. Most black powder, and all muzzleloaders, have the powder exposed to the elements in some manner. I always anticipate that I will get wet to the toes... not conditions I would want black powder.

My 'newer' rifles work just fine in those conditions, even after them going under water.

 

[Erik550c]

Thanks everyone.

 

[Skip]

I hunt deer with a 50 cal percussion and keep the muzzle and nipple covered when it`s raining, I won`t even consider a flintlock for hunting. If I lived where there was an animal that could eat me I`ll be damned if I would want a novelty gun to save me. I hunt South Georgia wild hogs with a shotgun and a 454 Casull in a hip holster. I have seen a pissed off 300 lb boar take 3 shots of 3 inch 0 buckshot and keep on coming, the last time I shot that boar I was hoping he would just run off and leave me alone. I can only imagine what a bear sow would do if she was mad at you.

 

[cubdriver2]

I won`t even consider a flintlock for hunting. If I lived where there was an animal that could eat me I`ll be damned if I would want a novelty gun to save me.

Thank god our founders didn't know that or they would have been eaten alive

Glenn

 

[Skip]

If that's all I would have had then I would have been right beside them but we have better options today. Hunting with one for fun is one thing but I ain`t trusting my life to a black powder gun.

 

[Shortwing1]

I have a replica 44 Colt Walker (the largest handgun in it's day) but it is heavy, almost 5 lbs. It is a six shot percussion revolver but I would never think of carrying it for bear protection.