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J3 to PA11

tophand

Registered User
Northwest South Dakota
Well I pulled the trigger on the Dodge conversion STC today. I've been reading a bunch of posts here of others that have done it. My questions for them (or anyone)
are would you do it again, and were there any unforeseen things that popped up. Other than don't do it. I'd like to hear what you have to say. If all you have is don't do it, at least have a good explanation.

thanks......Mike
 
Not sure yet, what are you thinking. If I go to my usual place I can hopefully do a lot of my own work.

.....Mike
 
I had one. Didn't like having the wing spars 3" from my forehead with a PA-18 front seat and your limited to 1220 lbs. I think the money would be better spent building up a 90 SC. IMO. Jim
 
I had a great Pa11, C90 with a seaplane prop and 30+ year old fabric. Had a couple thousand hours in that ratty old beast thinking about how it would be rebuilt with the things I wanted. Better seats, bigger baggage, better trim and I got everything I wanted. I liked the ratty old beast better. I've seen a couple J3/Pa11 and some were done better then others, Jim I didn't like yours, never flew it but I liked some of the others better. Ron Jones did one I liked, bigger baggage, no spar in the cabin, 0200 with a good prop. Mike if I were you and going to spend all that money and time I'd build or buy a 18-95 fus and build an X plane as lite as you can with half of what you want. I have to say that a C90/0200 stock Pa11 is about as good as it gets and I dearly miss my ratty old friend 49M

Glenn

PS. Be careful what you wish for.
 
Well truthfully the 90 SC would be the hot setup. But it would have to be experimental. I need to fly light sport. The cub I have now has a lot going for it, but I will never get out of it right now what I gave for it let alone what I think it's worth. I have a lot of personal preference reasons for the switch. I think I have found a way to legally get the spars and braces out of the way. I just need to do some more bookwork to find out if it's a reality. I haven't seen the paperwork that goes with the STC so I still have a lot of questions about that. One question that I have is does anyone know if you have to put a PA-11 Motor mount in. I'm sure there will be many more by this time tomorrow.

thanks......Mike
 
Seems as though I have seen an ad that Nick Smith is offering a 90 hp super cub kit for 25k, maybe on Barnstormers? Mike, I believe a 11 or PA-18-90 motor mount is required and Atlee has an STC to add a PA18 top deck. Going experimental is the best option for a lot of reasons. Jim
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but the pa-11 engine mount is angled down 4.5 degrees in addition to lowering the engine a couple inches. If you're going to change to a super cub top deck that would be nice but it may turn into an intense project, and you'll probably pick up some extra weight during the process.
 
I like my -11. The only thing I would change, if I could, would be the wing attach points. Not a big issue, though, and I wear a helmet to protect my head from getting whacked should something go south.....
 
Seems as though I have seen an ad that Nick Smith is offering a 90 hp super cub kit for 25k, maybe on Barnstormers? Mike, I believe a 11 or PA-18-90 motor mount is required and Atlee has an STC to add a PA18 top deck. Going experimental is the best option for a lot of reasons. Jim
Well I been thinking along the experimental lines too. I've located some wings the need rebuilt. and a fuse that would work

Correct me if I'm wrong but the pa-11 engine mount is angled down 4.5 degrees in addition to lowering the engine a couple inches. If you're going to change to a super cub top deck that would be nice but it may turn into an intense project, and you'll probably pick up some extra weight during the process.
you're right about the thrust angle. I'm not crazy about that

The dodge STC SA465AL is for installing a windshield and boot cowl, but doesn't change the way the spars attach. It may be that this was left kinda vague on purpose. Well I still haven't plugged in the sawzall and I haven't spent much more than I have on beer rental in the past.:lol: Thanks for your input it leads me to believe I'm on the right track with the questions and concerns I have.

thanks.....Mike
 
A PA-18-90 engine cowl and nose bowl fits just fine with the 11 or 18 mount. If a change to the thrust line is planned the lower engine cowl must be modified slightly to keep the prop flange centered in the nose bowl. Changing the thrust line makes a huge difference, I was almost out run by an 11 on amphibs with the mod. Some quick application of throttle on my part was required but I don't think he knew we were in a race. Good luck, Jim
 
I spliced an 18 top deck on a Wag Aero Cuby last summer,it wasnt a big deal,it took me a couple of days.I do have a cub jig tho.I used an 18 windshield and had to trim it to fit.It seems that people overthink these jobs.If I were back home in Alaska I would send some pictures.Lanny Merritt
 
Well I been thinking along the experimental lines too. // you're right about the thrust angle. I'm not crazy about that

The dodge STC SA465AL is for installing a windshield and boot cowl, but doesn't change the way the spars attach. // I'm on the right track with the questions and concerns I have.

Mike if you go experimental here are a couple thoughts..
1- Cut the firewall down and push the windshield out to match.. really improves the view
2- Get rid of the dash and move any gauges all the way to the firewall.
3- Cut out the overhead.. jig it. X-brace the top and dash.. (weight is a wash)
4- The windshield can be built to use a (wrapped) flat sheet of Lexan, may want to use a metal brake on top to place a stiffing bend for top deck attachment tabs to connect.
5- Thrust line.. in our testing some (- nose-down) was a good thing for takeoff and the further we went (+ or nose-up) the better the landings.. the tendency to fall out was less noticeable.
Possibly stick a motor mount on the plane and stack washers to see what you like the best, it does take more time that we expected to work it out.

With all the tweaks these things get its probably a good idea to check the horizontal thrust line as well. stand in front of the plane and 'bore sight' the prop center with the tail raised. When getting down to a stall a little horizontal line change is very noticeable. (more washes to test)
Once you know what you want for a m-mount.. build a mount to match the (washered) template.

If the build is kept light.. I believe the CG will be to far forward.. that's where we are with the last build.. would like to hear what others have done to fix (without adding weight).. adding tail length, move the wings, fly from the back?? With enough effort in the beginning of the project possibly moving the engine/firewall back then moving the pilot controls back (for leg room) would be a solution. Maybe on the next one! ;-)
 
You might want to check with the FSDO in Rapid City and see what they say about changing over to experimental, I asked about changing a pacer over to experimental last summer and it didn't sound like they would approve it-unless I got really creative...and less then honest.
 
Clint I know that you're saying. The fuse is experimental, it will have to be welded. The parts are just cut already. The wings .... I'm not sure whether to buy them or just get the Dakota Cub wings, that may be way easier. They need a bunch of ribs replaced or rebuilt, and I think at least two spars are twisted. There are no shortcuts

.....Mioke
 
You might want to check with the FSDO in Rapid City and see what they say about changing over to experimental, I asked about changing a pacer over to experimental last summer and it didn't sound like they would approve it-unless I got really creative...and less then honest.


The PA-11 wing mounts the same as the J-3 Cub. It would some effort to change that and not do some serious fabric repairs on the wings and fuselage. No question the PA-18 is nicer with the spars outside of the airplane.

Changing to experimental is a lot tougher these days. Total restoration and you have to BUILD a new set of wings and other mods. They also snuck in a rule that you are not allowed to use PREVIOUSLY FLOWN certified aircraft parts in a homebuilt. You can however use NEW parts with the receipt. Now the kicker is who you get to do the inspection. The local Fed here said we wouldn't push that issue because there are so many homebuilts being built that already have used parts installed. But the rule does exist.

Steve
 
I should have clarified that these a both SC parts and pieces

.....Mike
 
No The conversion would be PA-11 parts. Then we got to talking about experimental. I have a line on some experimental stuff. and we kinda drifted onto that and I'm not sure where we are now. I'm really just waiting till the STC gets here to know exactly what is called for as far as parts and pieces.

.....Mike

There are a lot of F A Dodge STCs that use SC parts on J3s. I think I talked about one of those. Maybe that's where the SC stuff came from.
 
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Glenn
 
Thanks Glenn
I've talked to New life restorations, They sound like a topnotch outfit. They include the X brace in the topdeck, and will do a reversed dogleg at no charge. Oh and the tail is braced up also.

I've got a friend in Immokolee who is going to try and look at one of Spraker frames

thanks.....Mike
 
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