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Informal ADS-B Survey Results Posted!

Being that where I live the system at this time has little to no value where I fly is my current reason. I did like it during the travel out to OSH and back especially during the weather we had to play in.
Being tracked is not a fear but I still have a fear that in the future this will be used as a means for taxation. That is something that hopefully will never come to be.
 
So here is a question. If someone installs SkyBeacon, or some other ADSB that relies on the transponder for operation, and one was to “remove the transponder for service”, is it still legal to operate in on-rule airspace with your ADS-B turned off? Does removing the transponder effectively remove your ADS-B since it will no longer function?


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Another curiosity, for those that stated they do not want to be tracked. Do you have a cell phone?
 
I doubt it. Just the G'vment.
Heck one thing I learn in CAP is the greater chance anyone has in the outdoors is to have a cellphone on you. Around here if someone gets off the backside of a ski area the fastest way to be found is by your phone. Which I find interesting since we get no reception to make a call in more than 10% of the region.
 
For the 38%. If I don't want anyone to see me I will use the off position. They can kill you but they can't eat you!

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Eddie Foy said:
They can kill you but they can't eat you!
Click to expand...

They can in New Guinea. Or in Jeffery Dahmer's neighborhood.

Just a reminder, turn off the system BEFORE turning on the master. If it never comes on, it raises less concern than if it's switched off in flight.

Web
 
dgapilot said:
So here is a question. If someone installs SkyBeacon, or some other ADSB that relies on the transponder for operation, and one was to “remove the transponder for service”, is it still legal to operate in on-rule airspace with your ADS-B turned off? Does removing the transponder effectively remove your ADS-B since it will no longer function?
Click to expand...

I'd say yes, your ADS-B system is inoperative, or at least incapable of operating properly,
so you must stay out of "rule" airspace.
Just like you must stay out of transponder required airspace is your txp is removed or inop.
 
hotrod180 said:
I'd say yes, your ADS-B system is inoperative, or at least incapable of operating properly,
so you must stay out of "rule" airspace.
Just like you must stay out of transponder required airspace is your txp is removed or inop.
Click to expand...

Agree on staying out of rule airspace, the big question would be are you in violation of 91.225(f) if you fly an ADS-B out equipped aircraft (not in rule airspace) if the transponder is removed?


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https://airnoise.io/ it’s a button that automatically generates aircraft noise complaints

One of my friends mentioned this the other day and I didn’t think it was real, but the website looks legitimate and there’s a few articles about the button on other websites. It specifically says it uses ADS-B data for submitting noise complaints. It doesn’t say what authority it sends the complaint to, but I’ve been told by a FSDO inspector they are required to investigate every complaint that comes to them. Absolute insanity that’s inviting overreach.

Long live non-electric aircraft.
 
CenterHillAg said:
https://airnoise.io/ it’s a button that automatically generates aircraft noise complaints

One of my friends mentioned this the other day and I didn’t think it was real, but the website looks legitimate and there’s a few articles about the button on other websites. It specifically says it uses ADS-B data for submitting noise complaints. It doesn’t say what authority it sends the complaint to, but I’ve been told by a FSDO inspector they are required to investigate every complaint that comes to them. Absolute insanity that’s inviting overreach.

Long live non-electric aircraft.
Click to expand...


It amazes me that the same people that don't like AC noise, are often frequent travelers. Not sure how you can have it both ways as I suspect even electric aircraft will produce a lot of noise to create thrust....

If you are not familiar, raw ADS-B data is totally open. FlightAware will hide your N number on flightaware for a fee, but not the main data repositories.

I have done a lot of fooling around with https://opensky-network.org/ and https://www.adsbexchange.com/ . I've been working on a little app that will ping me when our rental cessna is in the air, and when it lands. Just for fun...

sj
 
SJ said:
It amazes me that the same people that don't like AC noise, are often frequent travelers. Not sure how you can have it both ways as I suspect even electric aircraft will produce a lot of noise to create thrust..
I've been working on a little app that will ping me when our rental cessna is in the air, and when it lands. Just for fun...

sj
Click to expand...

A propeller will still make noise unless someone spends allot to make it quiet, so yes the electric will more than likely be most as loud as a properly muffled recip.

I just use Flightaware's notifications, generally then use Flight Radar to look and follow.
 
I operate from a Class C. (Not by choice)

Ordering an echouat this weekend, hopefully I’ll have time to install in January. I’d have done it earlier but no time!
 
That Echo unit looks like a lotta bang for the buck--
ADS-B in AND out, for (as I recall) less than $1500.
Too bad it's not approved for certificated airplanes.
 
dgapilot said:
Agree on staying out of rule airspace, the big question would be are you in violation of 91.225(f) if you fly an ADS-B out equipped aircraft (not in rule airspace) if the transponder is removed?
Click to expand...

I would say no, not in violation.
91.225 sez it mist be on if installed.
But since the txp is an integral part of the ADS-B system,
if the txp is removed I'd say the ADS-B is no longer installed.
91.225(f):

(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times unless - (1) Otherwise authorized by the FAA when the aircraft is performing a sensitive government mission for national defense, homeland security, intelligence or law enforcement purposes and transmitting would compromise the operations security of the mission or pose a safety risk to the aircraft, crew, or people and property in the air or on the ground; or(2) Otherwise directed by ATC when transmitting would jeopardize the safe execution of air traffic control functions.​
 
hotrod180 said:
I would say no, not in violation.
91.225 sez it mist be on if installed.
But since the txp is an integral part of the ADS-B system,
if the txp is removed I'd say the ADS-B is no longer installed.
91.225(f):

(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times unless - (1) Otherwise authorized by the FAA when the aircraft is performing a sensitive government mission for national defense, homeland security, intelligence or law enforcement purposes and transmitting would compromise the operations security of the mission or pose a safety risk to the aircraft, crew, or people and property in the air or on the ground; or(2) Otherwise directed by ATC when transmitting would jeopardize the safe execution of air traffic control functions.​
Click to expand...

So, if you don’t want anyone watching, and not operating in rule airspace, just slide the transponder out of the tray, placard, log entry, and W&B entry and good to go. Heading back to rule airspace, slide the transponder back in the tray and reverse all the above paperwork.


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You ARE being sarcastic, right?

If someone looks at the aircraft and sees the tray, wiring, and antennas, that's an indication that ADS-B is 'installed'.

Web
 
dgapilot said:
So, if you don’t want anyone watching, and not operating in rule airspace, just slide the transponder out of the tray, placard, log entry, and W&B entry and good to go. Heading back to rule airspace, slide the transponder back in the tray and reverse all the above paperwork.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding when a transponder is removed from it's rack and replaced that is considered reason the have to comply with FAR 91.416 (b). In other words a properly certificated electronics person must be utilized. We can take the transponder out but can not use it until being inspected after we put it back in.
That is, if we initiate a paper trail. :wink:


FAR 91.413 - ATC transponder tests and inspections

(a) No persons may use an ATC transponder that is specified in 91.215(a), 121.345(c), or §135.143(c) of this chapter unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of part 43 of this chapter; and
(b) Following any installation or maintenance on an ATC transponder where data correspondence error could be introduced, the integrated system has been tested, inspected, and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix E, of part 43 of this chapter.
 
skywagon8a said:
It is my understanding when a transponder is removed from it's rack and replaced that is considered reason the have to comply with FAR 91.416 (b). In other words a properly certificated electronics person must be utilized. We can take the transponder out but can not use it until being inspected after we put it back in.
That is, if we initiate a paper trail. :wink:


FAR 91.413 - ATC transponder tests and inspections

(a) No persons may use an ATC transponder that is specified in 91.215(a), 121.345(c), or §135.143(c) of this chapter unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of part 43 of this chapter; and
(b) Following any installation or maintenance on an ATC transponder where data correspondence error could be introduced, the integrated system has been tested, inspected, and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix E, of part 43 of this chapter.
Click to expand...

Simply removing and installing the transponder will not impact the data correspondence, so it wont trigger the 91.413 test requirement. Only if you do something to the static system, or do maintenance to the transponder or encoder would it trigger that requirement.


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dgapilot said:
Simply removing and installing the transponder will not impact the data correspondence, so it wont trigger the 91.413 test requirement. Only if you do something to the static system, or do maintenance to the transponder or encoder would it trigger that requirement.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I was under the impression once the connectors to the rack were unplugged that was considered maintenance to the transponder circuits and thus required retesting. Perhaps another misunderstanding from an IA meeting?
 
skywagon8a said:
Thank you, I was under the impression once the connectors to the rack were unplugged that was considered maintenance to the transponder circuits and thus required retesting. Perhaps another misunderstanding from an IA meeting?
Click to expand...

Just like the entire major/minor thing, it’s all in the interpretation. I don’t see how pulling a radio with guided connectors , and reinserting it could fall in that category. Think of how many times over the years we pull radios and reseat them due to corrosion on the contacts it “ fix” a problem. Can see how a standard fix would induce a problem. Now, with one of the new all in one units where your static system is broken when you pull the radio out of the rack, now you broke the static system that would require 91.411 for an ifr airplane.


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Seems to me that inside of controlled airspace you are already on ATC's screen and ID'ed at least by transponder code and intentions are known..so where's the advantage?

Outside controlled airspace where ADSB would be a advantage ID'ing other traffic, you arnt required to have it ????

maybe airspace charges?

steve
 
wireweinie said:
You ARE being sarcastic, right?

If someone looks at the aircraft and sees the tray, wiring, and antennas, that's an indication that ADS-B is 'installed'.

Web
Click to expand...

I was thinking...have a mashed in, face plate busted transponder just sit’n there...when asked what happened to your ADS-B unit?....answer....I did this thing..like went under this err...like a bridge thing.....and and and the radio like said, “ I’m tell’n” over and over and over...


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