tie down methods and knot free

[swoeric]

Does anybody use any of the mechanical or hardware type items instead of a knot on their tie downs...Im looking for something that I can undo easier that a super tight knot..

 

[jgerard]

I have always used a bowline on the ground and a hurricane hitch on the wing. Never EVER had problems undoing those knots when I use good rope for tie downs. I don't like the mechanical straps/clamps or chains.

http://www.fepco.com/BF.images.gentle.breeze.html


I have re-tied aircraft parked next to mine when the wind pics up just to make sure they don't get blown loose and onto my plane.

Jason

 

[wefly4u]

What Jason said. Best method ever, no need to be hauling extra hardware around. Foolproof and as secure as any method but, be sure to learn the proper way to tie the hurricane hitch so that it locks-in. Use 1/2 inch 3 strand nylon ( not poly) rope and you'll have no problems. Also go through the tie-down rigs and around the struts using the rings only to keep the rope at the top of the struts.

Ray

I have always used a bowline on the ground and a hurricane hitch on the wing. Never EVER had problems undoing those knots when I use good rope for tie downs. I don't like the mechanical straps/clamps or chains.

http://www.fepco.com/BF.images.gentle.breeze.html


I have re-tied aircraft parked next to mine when the wind pics up just to make sure they don't get blown loose and onto my plane.

Jason

 

[sjohnson]

I use ones similar to these: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/turcottetiedown.php

They work and look like cargo strap tiedowns, but they have double hooks and are sized for airplane tiedowns. The FBO I taught at used them for all the planes on the line. Well-tied knots are probably better, but these were better given the inconsistent knots tied by renter pilots. I hangar my plane most of the time, but these are sure handy when using a temporary tiedown, like the Claw.

 

[Gary Reeves]

Frankly, I prefer a Lapp Knot instead of a bowline on the bottom of the tiedown and I assume the double hitch is what you are calling a hurricane hitch.

Swoeric, if it is too tight to untie it is not a Knot. it is a tangle.

Jgerad, please do not retie some one else's tiedowns. I think you are still in the OK zone if you add another tiedown, to protect your aircraft.

GR

 

[sierra bravo]

No ratchets or mechanical buckles belong on airplanes.

I don't know a double hitch from a hurricane but I use a similar looking knot. It works great and is always easy to untie or re-tie even when the wind is blowing. But, any jam knot that's at the bottom of a loop can loosen when the wind bounces the plane around. A problem more pronounced with big, squishy tires. When the fan blows hard I re-tie with a secure knot without any loop or slack so the rope stays under tension and even if it relaxes the knot remans secure. Lessons learned in 100+ mph wind events with airplanes parked outside.

As for tying a neighboring plane? I do. I know my neighbors and will do whatever I can to help them. I do the same for strangers. Re-tie ropes, remove tattered wing covers, reinforce a rear strut, etc. My neighbors return the favors. They aren't negligent when their stuff needs attention, they're just busy. The last time I untied my -12 the tail rope's knots weren't mine. It must've needed to be re-tied. Somebody did me a favor and I appreciate it.

 

[cruiser]

http://www.animatedknots.com/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com Even Tim could learn to tie a bowline here. Jim

 

[OLDCROWE]

Eric, never too late for boy scout training.... Ratchet straps and others mechanical tied downs can cause serious damage if/when they come loose.

 

[swoeric]

thank you guys for the great rsponse....I have found that I already use what is called the huricane knot....copied some much older pilot that i looked up to years ago....as forthe bowline im very familiar with it fron the be prepared days....I asked the above question really in light of using a much light rope with the same strength just that it is much thinner than half inchand havent played with it on a load cell yet to test the wear and tear that severe loads and knots may place on the line...ill add more to this when i get more information.....thank you again for the help......ps if an airplane looks poorly tied down i will help the guy out....if it were my super sweet innocent wife she would padlock it so they had to come see her ....she would also only loan you half a sheet of paper in school or break the pencil she loaned you so that you would have to work for it

 

[bob turner]

I agree with Jason, except that I back the first double loop up with a half hitch. After that, I think the airplane is secure, but I put a second complete hurricane hitch with half hitch below.

 

[ysifly2]

... Use 1/2 inch 3 strand nylon ( not poly) rope and you'll have no problems. ...

What strength parameters are we looking for here? The reason I ask is it does not seem that all rope is created equal. I recently purchased some 1/4" Samson rope with a tensile strength of 4800lbs. In my searching for what should be used, I came across some CAP (civil air patrol) documentation that 'required' their aircraft be tied down with "Tie-down ropes and straps with tensile strength of 3,000 pounds or greater shall be used".

When I ordered the rope I was basing off of the strength and it didn't even dawn on me how small a 1/4" rope looks... but if it has adequate strength, should that matter?

Thanks
Bryan

 

[swoeric]

Bryan,


you have beat me to the punch...that is exactly what I had in mind. A friend of mine is a dealer for the samson rope. I was questioning how easy the knots were to undo at only 1/4 inch....it is that strong as i have tested it many times.

 

[N5126H]

The nylon rope as is discussed in febco will stretch some which is an important quality in save and secure tie down practices.

 

[jimboflying]

I like to use a mountain climbing product called a Tibloc by the Petzel company. It is light weight at 39gms and is easy to tighten and loosen.

 

[N5126H]

I have used climbing rope, in fact I use it for my ice screw set up. Climbing rope comes in streechy and not streechy. I use the streechy. Ice does not stick to it as much as normal white nylon stuff.

 

[sierra bravo]

a while back AkClimber was kind enough to (re)educate me about climbing rope. Dynamic rope, the stretchy kind, can elongate by 30% under a load. Great for arresting a fall for a climber. That means in the 10' I use between the earth anchor and the ring the rope may stretch to 13' in a gust, and there's no assurance it'll return to the original length. I've used static climbing rope for many years until wifey bought me a skein of dynamic rope for Christmas. that rope has been retired in favor of static (non-stretchy) rope again. Take it for what its worth, but the reason I tie my planes is to hold them when the wind blows. I don't guess it matters what kind of rope you use on a calm day.

I find 11mm rope holds jam knots really well. Smaller diameters like 8mm not so well. I can't imagine using 1/4" rope with typical hurricane type knots. To the strength issue I have a bulk spool of 3/16" Blue Steel that's stronger than any rope needs to be but it must be tied using special knots and splices. That doesn't work well for my tie-down needs.

Here's the rope I'm currently using. Off the rack at REI for .80 per foot. http://www.rei.com/product/472013/pmi-e-z-bend-sport-11mm-static-rope

 

[Gary Reeves]

I am, however, a user of dynamic climbing rope for tie downs. The concept of an elastic rope gradually distributing the gust load instead of a sudden jerk seems preferable. The hundreds of gust jerks can do damage. When the conditions are hard gusty, I just put on one or two more ropes at different angles from front and back in front and back.

The elongation of dynamic rope is to minimize the sudden impact on a climber in a fall. I try to minimize the jerk on my cub too. Frankly, I have been tying down on the lce and beaches in Lake Clark Alaska for more than a decade with dynamic rope and have never had any problem. When I use static rope as the extra help. I have to retighten it both during and after a storm, and switched to dynamic all around.

I think the skinny climbing rope is now only 9.8 MM, but I am still using 10.5 MM. Some of this climbing rope is moisture resistant and wish I had some to minimize the effect of freezing rain and melting and refreezing snow on the tiedowns.

GR

 

[sierra bravo]

Unless my tires went flat there's no slack in my ropes. No slack, no jerking at the end. For what that's worth.

I think Mark Englerth gave the best tie-down advice I've heard. Add an earth anchor under the cabane. Short rope, and it let's a guy untie the wings and rotate the plane to a better heading when he gets caught with the wind on the tail. Tough to do with a Cessna, though.

 

[fancypants]

I've picked up some of this to try:

New England Ropes’ Safety Blue is not actually blue at all, but gets its name from the blue core fibers which become exposed if the line is cut or abraded, warning the user of the danger. Safety Blue is an excellent arborist climbing line with high strength, flexibility, and safety features. Available in two color patterns: Safety Blue White or Hi-Vee (fluorescent orange/Hi-Vee). The high-visibility Safety Blue has the added safety of being very easy to see, even when dirty. Safety blue is treated with a special coating that helps to increase abrasion resistance and extend rope life. Safety Blue is a 16-strand single braid rope made from polyester and polyolefin fibers. Strong and lightweight (7 lb. per 100ft).

Quick Overview: 1/2” diameter, 7,000 ABS, 7 lb per 100’.

• Blue safety core
• High-visibility
• Coated for abrasion-resistance
• Lightweight
• High-strength

Manufacturer	:	New England
Made in	:	USA
Diameter	:	1/2” / 12 mm
Average Strength	:	7,000 lb / 3,178 kg
Construction	:	16-strand
Material	:	Polyester / Polyolefin
Wt. per 100’/100m	:	7 lb / 10.4 kg
Elastic Elongation	:	2.7% at 10% ABS
Hand Spliceable	:	Yes
Sewn Spliceable	:	Yes

Odd lengths can be found on ebay: "safety blue hi-vee"

 

[Dave Calkins]

1 Tie it tight.

2 Tie it so it stays tight. (angle of ground anchor versus airplane)

3 Tie with a knot that is untiable(spelling?)

4 Tie it with a knot that takes only a moment to tie.

5 Tie it with a knot that does not loosen.

..the "hurricane knot" misses on 2, 4, and 5....or is that 4 and 5.

If you insist on a hurricane knot, do your tiedown neighbors a favor and do a half-hitch under the last hurricane knot. A loose end whips in the wind and unties the hurricane knot.

PS, opinion, formed by being responsible for tieing many airplanes.

 

[cubdriver2]

Why do you need 3 7000 lb lines to tie down a 1200 lb airplane that might produce only 2500 lb of lift in a big blow? I use the 3/8 x 15' braided dock lines with an eye spliced in one end that you can get at Wally world or Gander Mt for 6.99 each. Pulled an 7000lb Ford F250 out of a ditch with it so it should hold a SC to the ground. I think you should look more at what your tieing it to because that's the weak link.

Glenn

 

[sierra bravo]

If you ever have the pleasure of observing yours and other airplanes riding out a 117mph windstorm you'll buy better ropes, will tie better knots, and will inspect your earth anchors more frequently than guys who haven't experienced such storms. A few others here know precisely what I'm talking about. Tying down with mediocre equipment and techniques provides the illusion of security. I prefer to be better prepared. Case in point, Anchorage had several big wind events early this winter. I was out of town for all but one. Being prepared worked out well.

 

[pak]

In addition to a reliable rope and knot, lift spoilers will also help contain the plane and reduce the stresses on the airframe.
pete

 

[Rob]

Here's the rope I'm currently using. Off the rack at REI for .80 per foot. http://www.rei.com/product/472013/pmi-e-z-bend-sport-11mm-static-rope

. Some of this climbing rope is moisture resistant and wish I had some to minimize the effect of freezing rain and melting and refreezing snow on the tiedowns.

GR

That rope is by PMI, and most REI's also carry PMI 'rescue rope' it too is an 11mil static rope but is made to be water resistant (mostly so when someone throws a rope in the water they it doesn't get water logged and weigh twice as much). It will do exactly what Gary was looking for Looks just like SB's rope, but yellow and black.


Take care, Rob

 

[skywagon8a]

I have never heard the term "hurricane knot". What is it? Is it a double half hitch with the second loop going through the same hole and locking on the first loop?

 

[cruiser]

Whaddy'a think? He's wearing the official leather jacket. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sRfpjaXHwU&feature=related or this? http://www.blueskyflight.com/doc/tautline.htm

 

[sierra bravo]

I have never heard the term "hurricane knot". What is it? Is it a double half hitch with the second loop going through the same hole and locking on the first loop?

Its in the popular F. E. Potts book. He ties it differently than the guys I know, though. Looks similar but his is less secure.

 

[skywagon8a]

Found it. It is what I thought it was. I had just never heard a name for it.

 

[qsmx440]

Go around any eye or chain link twice. Imagine the apex of the loop getting tighter and tighter. Right at the apex you have half the strength of the rope. Making two passes gives you the strength of the rope and somewhat increased abrasion resistance. Use smaller rope if you have to to get through the eye. The combination will be stronger. If you can only make one pass then remember you have half the strength. SUnlight destroys the rated strength in short order. Use Samson rope (old and I do mean old family connection 8))

 

[scout88305]

Here are some AK birds that appear tethered brick shiat house stout. I wonder what the story is on the 206 in Homer though? Reminds me of the last Rottweiler I saw.