Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
Eskimo. a great idea.
but fill them with 100LL as a prize
but fill them with 100LL as a prize
The History of STOL Competitions
- Thread starter sj
- Start date
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
Tim isn't "stock" either. He's different, just ask Eaton.
Tim
FRIEND
Petersburgh, NY
HA, Thanks Larry, I take a lot of abuse around here but I can always count on you
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Randy, I just saw a Cube Van pick Timmy and his wife up to go to dinner.
Glenn
Glenn
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Tim,
Careful, you are being stalked to figure out your training regiment so they can compete!
But don't worry, I won't tell them it is just natural ability!8)
As I understand it there was a STOL contest on the beach near Kenai in the '60's that predated Gulkana. Kevin Doyle's uncle was part of that and still has the traveling trophy as I understand. He was in Valdez last year and we want to get more of his story.
Finding the right mix of competition is always tough and varies among events. I understand people wanting exact measurements and it has happened that video has shown a result to be off. It is something we talk about every year as a group of organizers. We want to encourage people to fly and test their skills but if we emphasize the competition more will everyone feel comfortable to do it? I think overall people are pretty sophisticated and can appreciate a good performance from a Cub, 172 and 185 although they are not the same. We want to keep our event so that all will feel comfortable to give it a try and yet really be able to show the results of people demonstrating their skill. We have seen some push it too far for certain. The last thing we want is something getting bent or someone getting hurt. Using a state run airport raises the bar a bit for us too. Organizers, location and environment all combine to create different events. I think the variety is cool, I'm not sure that standardization is the way to go. We have a great DA and consistent wind so we get some awesome STOL results. We have never pretended that it is reality, just a place for people to see pilots perform under consistent conditions, have a crowd to appreciate it and generate some hangar flying after.
For all the people who want to see a gross weight contest or a weighted contest have at it. What we found is that adding weight tends to increase distances. No really. It also reduces the safety factor. Something we try to avoid. While nothing is risk free it is prudent to avoid things that are just not a good idea. I have noticed is that really good pilots do well in pretty much anything. Paul Claus hops into three different planes and flies them masterfully. Bobby Breeden as well among others. Masterful pilot skill seems to cover airplane performance but airplane performance doesn't always cover for skill. When both come together that is really something to watch as with Frank Knapp among others too.
We have talked about having the top finishers all fly one plane. That would be interesting for certain but again risk and liability creep in.
It is gratifying to hear stories of people who have attended Valdez and been inspired to fly or expand their flying. In our 15th year now we do see it a bit. That is what we are after. Create some exposure for this type of flying and show that it can be done safely. I think the industry is responding to this interest too, much of the hype is with STOL flying now with people following and participating and following world wide how cool is that? People like Lydia Jacobs and Laura Joy Erb coming in as teenagers and flying their 150's perfectly, and hearing the crowd roar in approval was about as good as it gets! Fly what you have well and people get it.
If we keep in mind that this all really is a celebration of a great style of aviation and aviators with the competition secondary and that will keep the flavor of the various events right in line too.
Finding the right mix of competition is always tough and varies among events. I understand people wanting exact measurements and it has happened that video has shown a result to be off. It is something we talk about every year as a group of organizers. We want to encourage people to fly and test their skills but if we emphasize the competition more will everyone feel comfortable to do it? I think overall people are pretty sophisticated and can appreciate a good performance from a Cub, 172 and 185 although they are not the same. We want to keep our event so that all will feel comfortable to give it a try and yet really be able to show the results of people demonstrating their skill. We have seen some push it too far for certain. The last thing we want is something getting bent or someone getting hurt. Using a state run airport raises the bar a bit for us too. Organizers, location and environment all combine to create different events. I think the variety is cool, I'm not sure that standardization is the way to go. We have a great DA and consistent wind so we get some awesome STOL results. We have never pretended that it is reality, just a place for people to see pilots perform under consistent conditions, have a crowd to appreciate it and generate some hangar flying after.
For all the people who want to see a gross weight contest or a weighted contest have at it. What we found is that adding weight tends to increase distances. No really. It also reduces the safety factor. Something we try to avoid. While nothing is risk free it is prudent to avoid things that are just not a good idea. I have noticed is that really good pilots do well in pretty much anything. Paul Claus hops into three different planes and flies them masterfully. Bobby Breeden as well among others. Masterful pilot skill seems to cover airplane performance but airplane performance doesn't always cover for skill. When both come together that is really something to watch as with Frank Knapp among others too.
We have talked about having the top finishers all fly one plane. That would be interesting for certain but again risk and liability creep in.
It is gratifying to hear stories of people who have attended Valdez and been inspired to fly or expand their flying. In our 15th year now we do see it a bit. That is what we are after. Create some exposure for this type of flying and show that it can be done safely. I think the industry is responding to this interest too, much of the hype is with STOL flying now with people following and participating and following world wide how cool is that? People like Lydia Jacobs and Laura Joy Erb coming in as teenagers and flying their 150's perfectly, and hearing the crowd roar in approval was about as good as it gets! Fly what you have well and people get it.
If we keep in mind that this all really is a celebration of a great style of aviation and aviators with the competition secondary and that will keep the flavor of the various events right in line too.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
The really cool thing is that Timmy competed all that time with a 4 place 2+2 with no flaps and a fixed stabilizer, trim tab. And many times was in the top 3 or 4.
Now that he has flaps he's too busy during landing to compete. :lol:
Glenn
Now that he has flaps he's too busy during landing to compete. :lol:
Glenn
Little_Cub
MEMBER
Palmer, Alaska
The Thompson Brothers are always in the shadows (riding twin electric scooters) at the STOL completions in Valdez and Oshkosh.. They are both pretty quiet but didn’t they stick a trap door under the fuselage facing forward for a drag stop on landing? They tried many of the same things we rely on today and possibly few more!
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scouter
SPONSOR
Exeter Maine
Exactly right on Tim. Many times I have flown with him and say to myself, How in hell did he just land in 1//2 the distance I did? Pete I think it goes something like "roll it up on the mains" The best show is when he is chewing on Cliffys backside on how to land. He is the man
Jim
brown bear
Registered User
emporia ks
Didn't they have a bench seat runing forward and backwards , toboggan style , to seat 4 people in their cub ? and had slats on their cub before slats were cool !
Doug
My lawyer was in F Lee Baileys' undergrad class. When he beat Lee on a test, Lee was unmoved, "must have been a mistake". Everyone standing in the hallway knew there was some other factor. As it turned out, there was! If I beat a pro at a stol contest, everyone in this crowd will know it's the wind. We're both participants and the crowd. If someone thinks there's enough money here to start courting another crowd, Red Bull has already figured out how to keep aerial action close-in and exciting. (oops, almost said interesting). F1 racing, timed to a billionth of a second is a boring parade. What I want to see is Roger Ward in his USAC oval car beating an F1 car at Lime Rock! Stol drags seems to be the best format for surprises.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Please remember, we see the video of Frank, Eddy, Bobby and Paul because they really do land and depart in a short space. But there are MANY other planes out there making the pattern at Valdez competing, many of them showed up with the family, unloaded and rolled up to the line. No fancy stuff, just the daily plane.
While those are not featured on the 75 second Utoob video, they are there... lets not let it get lost that Valdez is open to anyone that wants to give it a try! Thank you guys for that.8)
Another thing to remember, since NHRA is mentioned- like car races or bike races? Well, there are Indy car, Nascar, off road truck, off road car, GTP, Stock, dirt track, auto cross, dragsters (of different types)... need I go on? One event can not encompass all we want to see. Accept it for what it is, but do remember the 'media' coverage focus is on the 20' landing made by the special built cub, maybe once in a while on the teen in a 150... but there are plenty of folks out there in their every day plane giving it a shot just because.
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
Word was a couple years ago it is in rebuild now
Standard competition? Not every event is the same. And that is a good thing I suppose.
Accurate data is still important IMHO
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
It had Otter wheels and some 35" or so Dunlops(?) all the years I saw it collecting moss, cobwebs, and UV radiation at Hood.
I agrree with your statement SB
I agrree with your statement SB
The Thompson cub was an amazing aircraft. I think it would still be competitive today. I went to the Gulkana show in the late 80s and early 90s. There I met Jerry Burr. What I recall the most was the cold windy days with an occasional hot day. The Valdez is the new improved version.
I may be able to add a little on this one. I will admit I was a very young man when my father organized his first K-beach STOL competition. I believe the year was 1974 or 5. Jerry (Sib) Sibley was the owner of Peninsula Aircraft Service. He put up the $500.00 prize (big money in those days) Each attempt cost the competitors $50.00 with the money raised going to the local CAP. I remember a very tiny lady pilot by the name of Patty. She showed all the men in the Cubs how it was done and then watch the money pile up as everyone tried to improve on there distances after they were schooled by that gal. It was a great time each year and I loved going and watching. No doubt this instilled my desire to get my own plane and train to be the best I could be at this STOL stuff. I do recall the last year we did this we had a hot rod Cub attempt a take off but lost control and turned into the crowd. Thank the Lord everyone was paying attention and dove out of the way. After that happened Dad decided to call it quits. I recall James Isaac won in his J-3 one year and I do recall one of the Lofsted's drug his skids backwards in the Jet Ranger for a negative take off run of 10 feet.
Does anyone else remember this event or have any more details?
Does anyone else remember this event or have any more details?
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
Kustatan, thank you for that post. You bring up an excellent point, in that your father's event helped stimulate not only pilots to become better pilots, but also children to aspire to become more interested and intrigued with aviation. That is one of the things we enjoy at New Holstein, in that there are always a lot of children around. We combine the event with a Young Eagles Rally (which is held first). The ripples from your father's event, and from events like his, have a considerable ripple effect.
Thanks, again, for sharing this memory!
Randy
Thanks, again, for sharing this memory!
Randy
