PA-12 value?

[60below]

I know it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay, but maybe you folks could give me your best guesses The airplane is not currently for sale but may be in the future.

It's a 1947 PA-12 with a narrow deck 0-320 that is high time and has various vague logbook entries. It hasn't run in more than 16 years. It's here in Fairbanks, which is relatively dry but I don't know about possible rust problems. It needs a new boot cowl as the original has seen better days. My big concern about the airframe is that the fuselage is several inches shorter from the wing root to the gear fitting on the left side so it sits left wing low. I haven't looked inside in years so I don't remember what gives with those clusters up under the panel. I flew it years ago for the current unlicensed owner and that didn't seem to affect it once we got the strut forks/washout, etc. adjusted to somewhere close to normal. (When I lifted off the first time, it wanted to turn hard left!)
Someone apparently did some work on it in the past and it seems they just covered it up with fabric. When the current owner bought it the airplane was sitting off in some trees so we couldn't tell that it had a Democratic lean. It has cub flaps and gear with four inch wheels and 25 inch tundra tires. Some sort of basic radio is in the panel but I think it might not be legal now. It has the old struts and forks with a tiny amount of play in one of the bolts or holes. It has extended upper and lower baggage areas of dubious legality. In other words, it needs everything. Considering that, what's a reasonable price should it come up for sale? Thanks, Chuck

 

[12Geezer2]

Would be hard pressed to put a value on it. From the description it sounds like a MAJOR rebuild. I've been down that road---very expensive! Had a friend sell a similar 12 a couple years ago -sight unseen for 20 grand. I was really interested until I looked at it. Tried to open a wing inspection cover and had to pry it away as the mouse nest was firmly attached. Was afraid he might give it to me then I still could not afford to rebuild it :-? :lol:

 

[60below]

Thanks 12geezer2, I feel the same way. The buyer would have to have major experience to make this rebuild work and even then I think a lot of things would pop up and need to be considered, as usual. The good things include the flaps, SC gear, etc that don't need to be done from scratch, and a great plane that they aren't making any more. Considering the fortune that would probably have to be put in it, maybe a flying project is a better idea.

 

[SuperCub MD]

Free for the hauling would be to generous, run away as fast as you can and don't look back.

 

[eslboat]

Chuck , I just got done rebuilding a 1947 12 that was in a barn for 10+ years. It was a long difficult process. I paid 15K for the plane then completely stripped it, and started from the bottom up. I have a total of 100k into it not including labor but is is better then a new 12. It is a beautiful flying plane with a lot more room then a SC. It is expensive and not cost effective but it is a great experience. You have to ask yourself what does a new plane of that caliber cost ? My 12 took the silver Lindy award for seaplanes at Oshkosh this year which made it all worth it for me. You have to like working with your hands or don't bother. Just my 2cents. Good luck if you decide to go for it. Erik

 

[12Geezer2]

After reading eslboat's post perhaps I need to think more positive. My experience was very educational and many life time friends were acquired. The good people I met along the way(15years) have been so helpful; without them my 12 would still be just a pile of parts in the garage. I can never repay people like Randy Rubbert of North Dakota for all his fine help.He is truly an artist in the rag wing Piper world.Although my first love in airplanes is the 18 my second choice has turned out to be all I need for my kind of fun. My first cross country back to the Bighorn Mountains of Wyoming--nobody could wipe the smile off my face. Expensive, yes but oh so rewarding. My 12 would never win any beauty contests but it sure is fun. Check my photos. The second photo on page 2 is the best.

 

[Speedo]

Based on your description, it does not sound as thought the aircraft itself is worth anything. The dataplate, log books, signed 337s, and STC paperwork have some value - perhaps less than $10k.

 

[StewartB]

My PA-12 rebuild experience is quite similar to eslboat's. My advice is identical to SupercubMD's.

Run!

I have a great airplane and fond memories of the process, but when looking back it just doesn't pencil out. Look in this site's classified ads. There's a PA-12 with floats for a reasonable price. Even if you wanted to modify it, that airplane would be a better place to start.

Stewart

 

[60below]

Thank you to everyone who replied. I'm not surprised at your comments and am feeling sorry for the owner, a friend of mine who may think he is sitting on some money. Apparently not. The person who is interested is my son and I told him pretty much what you have said and also told him I would put this subject before the experts, those of you who have been there for this type of project. Thanks again.

Chuck

 

[Cub junkie]

I find it hard sometimes to not get emotional and want to "save" an airplane like you have described. Like you said, it needs everything. Reminds me of last week when a lady put a badly rusted J3 fuselage out on e bay and started the bidding at 10 grand, she thought she was sitting on a goldmine.

 

[Steve Pierce]

I bet someone will pay more than you think. Look at the insurance salvage sites. That stuff goes for a lot more than it should. There are a lot of uneducated people out there thinking they are gonna save some money.

 

[behindpropellers]

Will have 50K in the J-5 when it is done. Only reason I am not at 75k is becuae I have been scrounging for 5 years.

Some idiot will give 10-20K for that PA-12.


For sale:

PA-12 Logs since new, fuselage, right wing, 0-320b2b, interior parts = 12K

Tim

 

[SuperCub MD]

Steve is absolutely right. My advise was aimed at a BUYER of such a airplane, and I will stand by it.

However, If a friend had this airplane and wanted it gone, I'd tell them to advertise it as a out of annual but complete and ferryable "PA12-150 Cub Project" and take nothing less than 20K. Like the old saying goes, there is one born every minute, and I bet they would be fighting over it.

 

[Crash]

Anyone know what the latest is on Dakota Airframe. Are they still around and building PA-12 fuselages? I vaguely remember hearing that Univair was buying them out and going to start producing PA-12 and 14 fuselages.

If that were the case then PA-12's and 14's would have a whole new lease on life. Having rebuilt one, this is the main thing I have against them. There is just soooo much work involved in salvaging a 60 year old fuselage that its just not worth it. Most jigs available are also questionable at best.

If you could buy an "original to the blueprints" fuselage then taking something like this on would be no big deal.

Take care.

Crash

 

[Gordon Misch]

I haven't been able to access Dakota Airframe's website recently - I was wondering what the situation might be - anybody know for sure if Univair took them over?

 

[Steve Pierce]

Univair has the jigs and is working on the paperwork and jig refinements last I knew.

 

[Crash]

Univair has the jigs and is working on the paperwork and jig refinements last I knew.

That would be good. Dakota Airframe's PA-12 fuselages were not even close to the same league (quality wise) as Airframes Inc. or Univair PA-18 fuselages.

A lot of stock PA-12 parts wouldn't even bolt up to one, like the gear cabane for example. They also had many other issues that made you wonder what you had when you were done.

I turned down a real nice 180 hp PA-12 a few years back that had a rotted out long section. The guy kept dropping his price and got down to the low $30's (thousand) before it sold. With new fuselages available you could build one like it back up to new condition and have a real 3 place performer at a reasonable price.

Take care.

Crash

 

[munro]

A friend of mine has a dakota cub 12 fuselage bought last fall. It's sitting up in the Big Lake area and he is now planning on selling it. He was going to totally rebuild his rusty stock 12 but started adding the numbers up then had a decent fishing season. He'ss looking for a 180/185 now.

 

[kase]

Anyone know what the latest is on Dakota Airframe. Are they still around and building PA-12 fuselages? I vaguely remember hearing that Univair was buying them out and going to start producing PA-12 and 14 fuselages.

I was at Univair today. They have the PA12 jigs etc from Dakota Airframe and will have the paperwork and jig refinements completed the end of this year and ready for production. No approval or plans to make PA14 frames but could make a experimental one.