Off Runway Landings. (Slightly off topic)

[BSEC]

Hi Folks,

I read through a bunch of posts trying to find where this has been discussed but I haven?t found anything specifically answering my question.

Does anyone here know what action can be taking against a pilot landing off of the runway surface? I haven?t found a specific FAR prohibiting the action and no one I?ve talked to could answer. The posts I?ve read so far seem to indicate civil action being threatened but nothing more. Besides having to listen to a ranting airport manager, what are the consequences of landing in the grass at a field?

This question came to mind last week when the winds were blowing 40 kts. 45° to both runways at my desired destination.

Any info is appreciated

 

[pa19guy]

landing off the runeay surface

Aviate, Navigate and Communicate.
I would not recommend doing it routinely.
IF I thought I HAD to I would without hesitation. Fuel might have been a consideration, you might have had an errant engine gauge and needed to get on the ground fast. LL wind shear might have occurred so you turned in into the wind directly to help the situation

Chris

 

[jeffpa12]

off runway landings

I can give my experience. We have an idiot for an airport manager, that fears grass landings are "dangerous" like I said an "idiot". Anyway he has posted in the airport notams no grass landings. During tower operation they won't give permission to use grass and they are the control authority while their in operation, or to say FAA rules. But when they are down, and we use the grass we are PIC and the rules change to the local Mgr's position, or local. The short and long of it is I guess if he caught us the County could say get off the field due to all the insurance stuff. But I'm not sure if we did anything breaking the federal rules. And besides, it's more fun doing it behind his back! :lol:

 

[Jerry Gaston]

You may want to check your State laws about using a roadway for takeoffs and landings. In Montana the law clearly states that all roads can be used by aircraft for takeoffs and landings but are under the review of the local sheriff.
As far as grass landing and takeoff at a FAA recognized airport I would suggest that you go talk to the tower and your manager. It usually boils down to doing so at your own risk. When we use skis or tundra tires we try to avoid asphalt at all costs. So we us the infield or the side of the runway where there is grass. It is always at our own risk*.

*Does this mean that a regular landing on the asphalt would be a shared by those in the tower if you fail to do Good!!

 

[Cimarron]

We have a local flight examiner that likes to tell a pilot during a check ride to land on a taxiway if the winds are bad. In the interest of safty it is always the pilots call.

 

[wilbur]

This last ski season, and friend and I did a few trips to northern wisconsin, and when needing fuel, would contact a close airport and ask if they had a fuel truck that would be able to come out to the snow and juice us up. Eau Claire let us come in and land between the taxiway and runway. Rice Lake had a truck, but not allow us to land in the snow, saying their insurance didn't allow it. First time in 35 years I've been turned away from an airport.
We found that we could get 93 oct snowmobile gas at a resort that served them.
Wilbur

 

[Junior]

One Basic rule to remember ATC is there to serve pilots and smooth out any traffic conflicts. If you want to do something just request it. The worst thing they can do is deny it. If the situation dictates, just declare a PAN. NOTAMS or not you then basically have the entire airfield at your disposal. You then tell any ATC agency what you are going to do. Better to do that then push a uncomfortable situation, and risk Pranging your A/C.

It's easy to be intimidated by ATC, but remeber it's your BUTT in that airplane, they are nice and safe with their butt in a chair on the ground. Do what you have to do to get yours safely on the ground too.

 

[StewartB]

Ouch! I winced at the thought of declaring an emergency while my engine is still making noise. Go somewhere else if the wind is wrong where you are. Or land diagonally. Or land crossways. I cheat to the diagonal all the time when the wind's blowing. If the wind exceeds your comfort level, that doesn't constitute an emergency.

SB

 

[kase]

The tower could care less were you land at a controlled airport. Its up to the airport management.

A few months ago I landed sideways on R28R at BIL. 150 ft wide. Airport management saw me from 3/4 miles away and thought I landed on the taxiway. Airport sent out a vehicle to get my N-number. Tower called me on my cell phone and said the airport said I landed on the taxiway. Tower told them I did not. I called the airport, told them I didnt and they said OK, thought it was over.

A few days later one of the airport supervisors is at the tower wanting to listen to the tapes. All the tapes said was "cleared to land" and taxi to parking".

They still wouldnt let it go. Airport wanted my employer (FAA) to discipline me. After the tower manager stopped laughing at them and told them to get a life they finally went away. Also told them if they wanted to make a issue about it to contact FSDO and then FSDO would call ATC and the tower would tell them its a non-event anyhow.

Ive probably done this 40 times and this is the first time they saw me. Other pilots around here do it also.

Theres a small airport 12 SW of BIL that wont let you land in the grass either, thanks to their airport management.

 

[Alex Clark]

We have a gravel road next to the runway. Everybody with big tires lands on it . Then everybody else uses it as a taxi-way. The airport directory says it is not a taxi-way or a runway.

So the other night some guy from out of town ask the FSS about landing there.

The folks in the FSS said,

"The book says it is not a runway or taxiway."
"That said, the plane that just landed there has cleared and it's your call."

 

[AlaskaAV]

When Galena, AK was an active AFB, there was a guy with a SC working out of the airport.
When there was a direct crosswind, he would ask the Air Force tower for permission for a fast taxi to active and immediate intersection departure.
Always approved so he would start his taxi and lift off almost immediately and hold it maybe 20 foot off the deck and when he got to the active, he would bend it around and depart on the active. This went on for years while I was there.
We would land our Porters crossways on the runway under the same conditions with tower approval of course.

Ernie

 

[BSEC]

Thanks for all the replies folks.

I suspected this would boil down to the stance taken by the property owner (airport manager). I?d hate to find out there was something in the FAR?s prohibiting this by a letter from Oklahoma.

 

[Cimarron]

Too many airport managers, county comissioners, city council members etc think they own a federally funded airport. Their regulations do not supersede the fact that it is the pilots discission and responsibility. They can change that by paying back the federal funds and making the airport private.

 

[slowmover]

There may be no rule against landing off the runway, but I think the FAA could always nail you with 91.13, careless and reckless operation, if you pissed off the wrong FAA inspector. That rule is so vague and wide-open that they can pretty much get you for anything under that.

I did a couple 360s on left base at Skwnetna a few weeks ago, and an FAA inspector happened to see it. He ramp checked me, and I thought he was going to crucify me.

Be careful out there.

 

[FlipFlop]

Landing at Felts Field, Spokane WA, in my 185... Tower frequency was unusually quiet... Tuned in ATIS and caught the high wind, but missed the 90 degree crosswind part... Attempted a landing, but went around... Asked tower if I could use the grass between the runways... They said OK at my own risk... Landed perpendicular between the runways in the grass...