Light battery

[don d]

friend at the coffee shop this morning had this battery pack just slightly larger than a smart phone that he claimed would start a car. Weight maybe 1/2 lb. He loaned it to me in order for me to try to start my airplane. Lyc o-235. It cranked it better than 60 pound marine battery that I use as a jumper. I am shocked & impressed. It has plugs and adapters and order on most all of your other I'll battery powered off stuff like intercoms and hand-held radios and GPS of iPads or whatever.

heck with Odessy, aerovolts

Don

 

[bob turner]

There are some extremely powerful batteries out there that have interesting side effects when charged or discharged too rapidly.

 

[wireweinie]

friend at the coffee shop this morning had this battery pack just slightly larger than a smart phone that he claimed would start a car. Weight maybe 1/2 lb. He loaned it to me in order for me to try to start my airplane. Lyc o-235. It cranked it better than 60 pound marine battery that I use as a jumper. I am shocked & impressed. It has plugs and adapters and order on most all of your other I'll battery powered off stuff like intercoms and hand-held radios and GPS of iPads or whatever.

heck with Odessy, aerovolts

Don

I've recently discovered Micro Start. Just like you say, it will start an airplane or even a car, and it has a bunch of adapters for phones, computers, Ipods, etc. Seems like a fully charged unit would be an idea item for a fly-away kit or, up here, part of a survival kit. Just be sure to check out the correct way to recharge them. Some of these require a special charger or they will be damaged. And, like Bob says, some types of batteries can be 'interesting' when used in ways they were not designed for.

Battery technology seems to have taken another leap forward in reducing weight while maintaining output. Just look at these jump start units and the EarthX style batteries. Makes me wonder how long before the lead acid type just goes away.

Web

 

[soyAnarchisto]

EarthX - lithium iron - very powerful and light weight

 

[mvivion]

As Web noted, many of these batteries have "quirks". For example, the lithium iron phosphate batteries require a specific type of charger, or internal circuitry to adapt to "standard" chargers. And, if discharged below a certain voltage, they will no longer hold a charge.....like ever. Some of these batteries, like the Earth X have a protection circuit to prevent excessive discharge. I bought another brand, which also has these features, after buying and then returning a cheaper battery that was sold to me as good for my application. I read the specs, called the manufacturer (who was not the salesman) and they said no way would that battery be a good fit for my use. They were kind enough to give me an email to that effect, which I took to the salesman, and they let me return the battery. I then ordered a battery direct from the manufacturer.

theres a lot of BS out there about these little batteries...do some research before plunking down cash.

MTV

 

[lvgbr]

Try Odyssey battery PC680

 

[courierguy]

Try Odyssey battery PC680

A boat anchor!

At least as compared to the quirk free EarthX. I saved 13 lbs when changing from the Ody to the EarthX 36C, some of that, was not needing the Ody battery box and associated hardware to secure it in place, anymore. No special charger or care needed for it either, treat it like a regular battery.

 

[bob turner]

Website does not say if these are Lithium Polymer. You really need to be carefuml with LiPo batteries. They are the rage with RC modelers - charging them is done while you watch, in a fire brick style enclosure.

I know little about them except that thermal runaways have cost folks their houses!

 

[mvivion]

Bob,

they're Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. Charging is safe as long as they have the interior controller, or you use the appropriate charger.

MTV

 

[mike mcs repair]

I've recently discovered Micro Start.
Web

had to look them up... impressive!!

 

[bob turner]

Well, okay. How come we know about them and Tesla Motors doesn't?

 

[soyAnarchisto]

Tesla does know about lithium iron phosphate - it's a question of economy of scale and cost

if you think the tesla roadster is pricy at 100k+ it would probably be over a 1/5 million if the batteries were lithium iron. Nice and light though.

The closest equivalent to the Odyssey P680 is the ETX36D (a little more powerful) it weighs 3.6lbs compared to 15.4lbs. It's also 2.5X the price at $350 compared to $137 of the Odyssey.

 

[Gordon Misch]

Hey Bob, have you visited the Tesla showroom that's somewhere in the Kearny Mesa / La Jolla area? Son Wendell took me there earlier this summer, but I can't remember exactly where it is. Pretty cool stuff. And I understand they're planning a 30 or 40 k pricepoint model in the next couple years. If you haven't visited, you should, just because. I'll get the particulars to you or put you in touch with Wendell if you want - - - BTW, sorry I didn't catch up with you when I was there - it was a VERY quick trip, just for the graduation.

 

[NunavutPA-12]

I've been using the ETX36D for the past six months. I'm very impressed. Doesn't seem to lose any power at all when the 'plane sits for a week in the bush. Cranks better than the Odyssey and ten pounds lighter. Yet to see how it does in the cold.

 

[spinner2]

I've had three different Li batteries. None lasted more than 100 hours. One died at 28 hours. I went to the PC680 as a final solution. I liked the lightweight of Li but I didn't consider them dependable enough. The additional 10 pounds hurts the empty weight number but I feel much more comfortable with the gel type PC680 battery.

I have one of those castoffs on Quad now and it is working well there.

 

[mvivion]

Dan,

just FYI, the Odyssey battery is a lead acid battery, and not a gel cell. It's a sealed recombinant gas mat technology, if I recall correctly.

Could you post the manufacturers names of the LiIPho batteries that failed?

MTV

 

[soyAnarchisto]

I've replaced my gel battery now 3 times in 2 years. They are cheap - but jsut as throwaway. I just got an EarthX - have yet to wire it in - but will let you know how it goes with me. I'm driving transponder, radio, gps for the ELT, and ipad. No starter or other electrical.

 

[courierguy]

My three old Odyssey (working fine, I just wanted to lose weight) is still working great.....in my ATV. Last winter in Idaho showed the Earth's a equal or better if anything cranker then the Odyssey.

 

[spinner2]

Dan,

just FYI, the Odyssey battery is a lead acid battery, and not a gel cell. It's a sealed recombinant gas mat technology, if I recall correctly.

Could you post the manufacturers names of the LiIPho batteries that failed?

MTV

The reason I referred to the PC680 as a gel type is because the instructions that came with it said to set a smart charger to the gel type setting if charging with an auxiliary charger.

Here's some data I had on another thread:
I looked up the hours I got out of the batteries I've tried and it is interesting when it is all laid out. The original Power Sport lasted 70.5 hours. Next was the Xtreme X2-14 and it went about the same at 69.2 hours. Up next was the first lithium iron battery, the Adventure Power APP14A1. It pooped out in 28.4 hours. Still liking the featherweight of these lithium batteries I bought an Aerolithium 500 A model. It was the best of any of them going for 105.1 hours.

I suspect that spinning a tight O-340 takes a lot of juice. Combine that with cold weather and we're asking a lot of battery. Like a lot of other users I've had good success with the Odyssey in sub zero temps.



Here's my old PA18 after a night out in sub-zero cold. The Odyssey cranked it over fine.

 

[silflexer]

Bump. Cold weather updates?

 

[skywagon8a]

had to look them up... impressive!!

I have a question. All of these new high tech batteries have some good features with demonstrations of starting engines which is a high current draw activity. Why or how do they get away with using such a small diameter wire to connect the battery to the starter? We have all always used large diameter wire for this purpose. A perusal of AC 43:13 will show the wire chart. How long will those itsy bitsy wires last when starting engines????? Are they using high tech magic wire?

Another thing which I would like to point out is that these newfangled batteries have some nice features. One of the important ones is light weight. Remember the Boeing 787 battery fiasco? Boeing has an unlimited amount of resources to certify stuff. Yet they screwed up battery 101. As I understand it, their fix is a more fire worthy battery box. There is likely more to it than this. Do we Super Cubers want to be experimenting with some of this new stuff in our fabric covered puddle jumpers? Under our derrieres? Anywhere in our flying machines? Fire in an airplane scares the bleep out of me.

 

[NunavutPA-12]

Wish I could help with the cold-weather PIREP. I don't fly from December to April, but it should still be -20 here in April!

I think the Boeing battery was a Lithium-ION but the technology that some of us are using is Lithium-IRON. Much safer.

I used my Earth-X through last summer, including some days in September around the freezing point. Cranked much better than the almost-new Odyssey that it replaced.

 

[cubdriver2]

Wish I could help with the cold-weather PIREP. I don't fly from December to April, but it should still be -20 here in April!

I think the Boeing battery was a Lithium-ION but the technology that some of us are using is Lithium-IRON. Much safer.

I used my Earth-X through last summer, including some days in September around the freezing point. Cranked much better than the almost-new Odyssey that it replaced.

Earth-X 24 or 36

Glenn

 

[NunavutPA-12]

36

 

[aerialimage]

I have had the 600cca booster pack from mpower. Everyone should have one of these. The thing jumps 15-20 vehicles between charges, it weighs nothing and I will eventually buy the smaller mpower for a portable power source for iPad and such while in the j3.
my mpower that I have now jumps v6 and v8 engines all day long. I'm sure sometime it will fail but already it owes me nothing. I found mine on eBay for $95 delivered. I also see another one that is intended to look like the mpower but shipped from China. I can speak for the mpower jump it and will buy again.

 

[qsmx440]

I have a question. All of these new high tech batteries have some good features with demonstrations of starting engines which is a high current draw activity. Why or how do they get away with using such a small diameter wire to connect the battery to the starter? We have all always used large diameter wire for this purpose. A perusal of AC 43:13 will show the wire chart. How long will those itsy bitsy wires last when starting engines????? Are they using high tech magic wire?

Another thing which I would like to point out is that these newfangled batteries have some nice features. One of the important ones is light weight. Remember the Boeing 787 battery fiasco? Boeing has an unlimited amount of resources to certify stuff. Yet they screwed up battery 101. As I understand it, their fix is a more fire worthy battery box. There is likely more to it than this. Do we Super Cubers want to be experimenting with some of this new stuff in our fabric covered puddle jumpers? Under our derrieres? Anywhere in our flying machines? Fire in an airplane scares the bleep out of me.

Sky you nailed what was going through my mind the whole time watching that. Why are they not smoking? It does appear the old school on power is moving , how can I say this, somewhat to the left. Ugggh. Anyway I want one. For an experimental with no electrical system, how about no solenoid? A couple of the magic wires coming directly from the starter to a plug on the panel. You just take your battery from your pocket and plug it in to start your plane? Just the thing for an old man with back problems. Now how about getting extra mileage with this HHO adapter.......

Edit: Just realized someone might take what I said seriously. I was joking . Probably don't want to be "breaking" a high current connection at the panel.

 

[mvivion]

I have a question. All of these new high tech batteries have some good features with demonstrations of starting engines which is a high current draw activity. Why or how do they get away with using such a small diameter wire to connect the battery to the starter? We have all always used large diameter wire for this purpose. A perusal of AC 43:13 will show the wire chart. How long will those itsy bitsy wires last when starting engines????? Are they using high tech magic wire?

Another thing which I would like to point out is that these newfangled batteries have some nice features. One of the important ones is light weight. Remember the Boeing 787 battery fiasco? Boeing has an unlimited amount of resources to certify stuff. Yet they screwed up battery 101. As I understand it, their fix is a more fire worthy battery box. There is likely more to it than this. Do we Super Cubers want to be experimenting with some of this new stuff in our fabric covered puddle jumpers? Under our derrieres? Anywhere in our flying machines? Fire in an airplane scares the bleep out of me.

Pete,

There are lithium ion batteries and then there are lithium ion batteries.

The Earth X batteries are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries....a type of lithium ion batteries, but a different type of battery than that used in the 787. The lithium iron phosphate batteries are a MUCH safer technology, apparently, than those used in the 787. So, why doesn't Boeing switch to these safer batteries? One reason I'm sure you're well acquainted with is certification. They've certified this airplane with that battery, and changing to a "safer" battery will require a lot of monkey motion. Further, having been burned once (sorry, couldn't resist) they're likely pretty gun shy of jumping on another new technology. If I were them, I'd be waiting to see just how safe these new generation lithium iron batteries turn out to be.

As to the cabling issue, I totally agree with you. All the demos I see of these little jump start batteries have VERY short jumper cables, AND as a jump starter, they're not then subjected to a big current INPUT from an alternator right after the start. Hence, small cables work.....very short cycle. But, INSTALL one of these as a primary starting battery, and cables will be longer and you'll want to recharge with alternator.

I think installed, these batteries, like any other, should be connected with large diameter cables, like any other battery.

Maybe.

MTV

 

[Bill Watson]

If you use this battery as a jumper battery, would you need to disconnect the installed battery?

 

[DW]

I have had the PC680 sense they came out and was always happy with it ..then I heard about the the Earth X at a trade show and talked with guys that have had them in there planes for over a year with good results so I bought one and am super happy with it ...turns the engine over better then the PC680 even in the cold.

 

[Olibuilt]

Wich EarthX battery do you have DW??

The ETX36 sound too big I think, and the price is high.

I don't know if the ETX18 would be enough:

EqAh:	18
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA):	340A
Cold Crank Amps (CCA):	230A
Recommended Charge Amps:	1-8A
Max Charge Amps:	30A
Weight:	2.2 lb (1.0Kg)

Or the ETX24?

EqAh:	24
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA):	420A
Cold Crank Amps (CCA):	270A
Recommended Charge Amps:	1-10A
Max Charge Amps:	40A
Weight:	2.6 lb (1.2Kg)