• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Hydraulic ski advice

CubDriver218

CubDriver218

Registered User
Minnesota
I'm looking for some advice. I found some hydraulic Federal AWB 2100 skis all set up for a supercub with standard gear.
I have a -12 with 3" extended super cub gear.
Being up in MN I'd love to get some skis on so I can do some ice fishing and stuff without worrying snow depth too much.
My problem is I don't know too much about skis and what may or may not be all entailed in getting these rigged, and put on my plane.
Does anyone have a copy of the paperwork for these skis for a PA-12?
How much $$ pain am I looking at to get these installed? I'm assuming hydraulic lines and a pump need to be installed inside the plane. Is this an easy project?
Due to the skis being set up for standard 18 gear what all am I going to need to get them mounted on my 12? just springs and cables I'm assuming?
And lastly - will these skis work with my 850s or will I need to buy smaller tires for my winter operations?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
might work with 850's if you keep air pressure down to 10psi,did get the bolt on mount to gear if not,weld on can be made to fit the 850s.don't know if there is aSTC for those on the12?cables all need to be longer with 3".maybe 4-5 hour labor to in stall pump .then you need snow that's free.
 
I believe that linage of hydraulic wheel skis is now owned by Wipaire out of St. Paul MN. Now called the C2200 it lists the PA-12 as and approved aircraft. www.wipaire.com I'm sure a call to them will answer all your equipment questions as far as rigging and part numbers go.
 
I would use bolt on fittings. You will need minimum of two days to hang the plane and rig the skis (do you have lifting tabs). Usually some grinding and welding involved. Another day to rig the pump and run lines. If you use the stiff leg brace mount it to the front gear leg not to the gear fitting. Another day to fit pump and run lines. Would not be surprised if it took 4 days lots of futz factor when fitting skis!!! But I have to say winter flying is some of the best flying I do.
DENNY
 
WA L16 said:
I believe that linage of hydraulic wheel skis is now owned by Wipaire out of St. Paul MN. Now called the C2200 it lists the PA-12 as and approved aircraft. www.wipaire.com I'm sure a call to them will answer all your equipment questions as far as rigging and part numbers go.
Click to expand...

No. The AWB series of skis are completely different than the C-2200 skis, and I don't think Wip owns the TC.

You cannot legally run 8.50 tires on these skis, and in any case, the tires would extend below the ski bottom quite a bit, which will seriously degrade performance. You'd be better off just buying the (much cheaper) penetration skis in the first place, if you were going to run 8.50s on those skis.

Check the 12 TC to see if they're approved on that plane.

MTV
 
Approval shouldn't be tough. Since you're on Cub gear you'll need to base it off of a Cub installation. I'm not familiar with what fittings are required for AWBs but some hydraulic ski fittings don't fit up easily with the gussets on HD gear and not all HD gear is the same so look closely before you start. I have no idea how the stiff legs vary for extended gear but I know guys who have AWBs on ext gear so it is done. Mounting the pump itself may require some creativity (sidewall or floor) but the plumbing is pretty simple. Look at Bill Rusk's Javron thread for his bulkhead fitting photos. That's the common way for installing hydraulic ski lines. I know nothing about AWBs other than the guys I know use 2500s and all extend the bottoms pretty dramatically with UHMW. It seems to me they use 850s, too. I remember Kase discussing AWBs with 26" Goodyears a long time ago so he may know a secret or two. Good luck and have fun with the project.
 
"No. The AWB series of skis are completely different than the C-2200 skis, and I don't think Wip owns the TC." Actually Mike, you are wrong .....and right.

First I said the lineage of federal/fluidyne skis is owned by Wipaire, I didn't say the C-2200 were the same.

Second you actually posted correctly on a previous thread on supercub.org 10-25-2007 titled Flu Dyne Ski:
"Yes, they started out as two separate companies. At some point, they both combined into Federal, but there were still Fluidyne skis built by Federal. Many of them were essentially duplicate, though. Wipaire now owns all the TC's, I believe. MTV"

Third Wipaire does own the federal/fluidyne lineage. Taken straight from their website: "Wipaire owns and manufactures what were formerly known as the Federal Fluidyne skis, an already proven and reliable aircraft ski. As is our custom though, we designed several enhancements into the new skis." www.wipaire.com/myaircraft/piper/PA18/reader.php?article_id=53

Perhaps Wipaire will be able to help, or perhaps they wont be interested in supporting the older lineage of their current product. Might be worth a call or perhaps cubdriver218 can just drop by and talk to them seeing as they live in the same state.
 
WA L16 said:
"No. The AWB series of skis are completely different than the C-2200 skis, and I don't think Wip owns the TC." Actually Mike, you are wrong .....and right.

First I said the lineage of federal/fluidyne skis is owned by Wipaire, I didn't say the C-2200 were the same.

Second you actually posted correctly on a previous thread on supercub.org 10-25-2007 titled Flu Dyne Ski:
"Yes, they started out as two separate companies. At some point, they both combined into Federal, but there were still Fluidyne skis built by Federal. Many of them were essentially duplicate, though. Wipaire now owns all the TC's, I believe. MTV"

Third Wipaire does own the federal/fluidyne lineage. Taken straight from their website: "Wipaire owns and manufactures what were formerly known as the Federal Fluidyne skis, an already proven and reliable aircraft ski. As is our custom though, we designed several enhancements into the new skis." www.wipaire.com/myaircraft/piper/PA18/reader.php?article_id=53

Perhaps Wipaire will be able to help, or perhaps they wont be interested in supporting the older lineage of their current product. Might be worth a call or perhaps cubdriver218 can just drop by and talk to them seeing as they live in the same state.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion. The point I was trying to make is that the current production C-2200 ski is an entirely different ski from the old AWB series of skis. Yes, Wipaire produces the "C Series" of retractable wheel skis, including the C-3600 and C-2200, but they never put the AWB series back in production.

There MAY be an STC for these skis on the 12 out there somewhere, but they are not approved on the PA-12 TC. I suspect most of the ones installed on 12s were done via field approval. Wip may indeed have info regarding approvals, and I would call them.

The MPLS FSDO has been more open to field approvals than most FSDOs, as well. But, to the best of my recollection, the only AWBs APPROVED to run 8.50 tires are the AWB 2500A series. Anything else would require a field approval. At one point, we ran AWB 2500s on Cubs with modified rigger arms to accommodate Goodyear 25 inch Airwheels. Those were sold at one point, and I suspect they're still out there. Good luck getting a FA on a set of those. And, as I noted, unless the rigger arms have been lengthened, your tires will extend below the ski bottom.....just like penetration skis. My AWB 2500s had the extended riggers, and the 8.50s still protruded. One of the differences between the AWB and C series of skis is that the AWBs take the weight of the plane on the rigger arm, while the C-2200 the tire rests on top of the ski, providing some cushion and keeping the tire out of the snow.

Another point: These skis are REALLY heavy. My AWB 2500s weighed over 120 pounds without the hydraulics. What will that do to your useful load?

For or your purposes, I'd look at penetration skis. Even there, you may have approval issues if you have extended gear.

MTV
 
cubdriver2 said:
Buy the Summits and get a FA for them

http://www.summitaircraft.com/products/aircraft-skis

Glenn
Click to expand...

I was looking at http://www.airglas.com/FixedWing/Pr...uctDetails/mid/3050/ProductId/25/Default.aspx
and notice these are less expensive. When it comes to wheel penetrations skis is one preferred over the other?
Airglass looks reasonably priced, but do they hold up? How are they?
lame I'd have to buy smaller tires than my 850s, but that's not the end of the world. it'd be nice to get an extra set of wheels so I could keep my 26" GY on some then the smaller ones for winter making the transition much easier.
 
Mike
Bolting the stiff leg into the front gear leg keeps it from binding and messing up geometry of the of the gear when in motion. It looks like it should work fine in the gear fitting but Mitch said he had problems with the stiff leg cracking/breaking when mounted in the gear fitting, fixed it by putting it in the gear leg. I have mine on 3 inch gear so it was a pretty easy to just sleeve the leg and bolt it on.
DENNY
 
CubDriver218 said:
I was looking at http://www.airglas.com/FixedWing/Pr...uctDetails/mid/3050/ProductId/25/Default.aspx
and notice these are less expensive. When it comes to wheel penetrations skis is one preferred over the other?
Airglass looks reasonably priced, but do they hold up? How are they?
lame I'd have to buy smaller tires than my 850s, but that's not the end of the world. it'd be nice to get an extra set of wheels so I could keep my 26" GY on some then the smaller ones for winter making the transition much easier.
Click to expand...

I've had my LW2500s for 8-9 years and on two different Cubs. They've performed and 'held up' very well for me. Not one problem.

I like the 8" tires. Bigger tires would just add weight and offer no advantage for hard surface runway use. 6" tires would be better in my opinion.

BTW a couple of the pictures in the link you pasted above are of my Cub.
 
Airglas is a good outfit, and they build good products, no doubt. They have a long history of building fiberglass skis, and they hold up well.

MTV
 
Love, love, love hydraulic skis. My new plane will have them from the git go. Don't be too quick to dismiss hydraulics. There are some good deals to be had if you're patient.

Scooter has a great perspective of Airglas penetration skis versus his FliLites. Maybe he'll offer a paragraph or two since it's still fresh in his mind.
 
I'd be interested to know. I found a decent pair of hydraulic skis (nothing pretty) but told they're in good shape and everything works for under $6,000 but it sounds like there's work involved in getting the pump and everything set up. I admit hydraulic skis would be nice, but the simplicity of penetration skis - considering they're approx. the same price and being new vs used..... you guys have far more experience than me. Which should I go with?
 
11 winters of penetration wheels skis with my Rans S7S. Light and simple.
Not interested even a bit in any other type. My brother has a set of Summit wheels skis for
a Super Legend 180. Very nice. Quick and tidy install. I'd check them out for sure.
Hydraulic wheels skis look way too friggy and heavy to me. Sorry.
Roddy
 
It'll take about 3 hours or so to bolt up Summits ski bracket (leave your 850's on),
and determine safety/check cable lenth. After initial install it'll take maybe 5-10 min to
put the skis on and be completely ready to go and if the snow goes in the dead of winter
it'll take about 3 min to take them off and just proceed on 850's.
Roddy
 
CubDriver218 said:
I'd be interested to know. I found a decent pair of hydraulic skis (nothing pretty) but told they're in good shape and everything works for under $6,000 but it sounds like there's work involved in getting the pump and everything set up. I admit hydraulic skis would be nice, but the simplicity of penetration skis - considering they're approx. the same price and being new vs used..... you guys have far more experience than me. Which should I go with?
Click to expand...

Richard,

First, I'd find out what I can get approved on that airplane. That may answer your question for you. You may find out you can't get those AWBs approved. If so, pig in poke. Then, the 2100s are not very big skis.....and heavy. Lots of load if you have extended gear.

But first, find out if you can even LEGALLY install them.

Me, I'd call Airglas and ask if they have an Dtc for your installation.

My old AWB 2500s, which were in very good condition recently sold for $9000 or so for perspective....but bigger skis.

MTV
 
Richard
I have a nice set of C-2200's all the rigging,pump,tail ski,bolt on fittings for pa-18 would sell for 7,000.00 and they are in Racine,Wis. fly down take a look
Ted 414 791 9872
 
I was with my buddy flying yesterday and his Aeroskis looked awesome. we took off on wheels and then once landed on the lake we could take a bar and camber the wheel up so there was no drag. Once airborne just spring release the wheel and it popped back down to land back on the runway.
Only problem is at close to $10,000 I'm more inclined to go a different route.
 
If you hear or see any used let me know. I've searched the inter-webs and came up with nothing. I'd love a pair of them, but not at $9,000 +
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
hydraulic wheel skis
Replies
0
Views
1K
Lippy
L
D
Hydraulic Wheel Skis
Replies
8
Views
6K
scout88305
scout88305
WindOnHisNose
Re-rigging Federal 2200 hydraulic skis
2
Replies
54
Views
21K
Indabush
I
F
Federal AWB2100 skis
Replies
9
Views
6K
behindpropellers
behindpropellers
K
AWB 2500 on a PA-12
Replies
1
Views
4K
mike mcs repair
mike mcs repair
Back
Top