FAR 45.11 Data plate location

[skywagon8a]

§45.11 contains the following requirement:

The identification plate for aircraft must be secured in such a manner that it will not likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or destroyed in an accident.

My question is this: Since 100% of the required area is fabric over tubing, where and how is this requirement complied with on a Cub replica? What is acceptable to the DAR? Perhaps Joe Norris can enlighten us?

I know that Piper screwed them to the floorboard but that does not comply with new construction regulations.

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Steve)]

Reread your post. Secured in a manner "NOT LIKELY" TO BE DEFACED OR REMOVED DURING "NORMAL" SERVICE. On the floorboard under the pilot seat is a location that fits that criteria. That data plate has to be stamped steel.

However, there is a second "Customs" requirement that the information needs to be on the outside either near the door, or on the vertical side of the fuselage near the tail. The info letter size is 1/8 min. and can be painted, or a stick on placard. Info required is aircraft model and serial number. N number is option.

Steve

 

[jnorris]

On the floorboard under the pilot seat is a location that fits that criteria. That data plate has to be stamped steel.

On a newly constructed aircraft the floorboard inside the aircraft is not an acceptable location for the data plate. It must be on the outside of the aircraft. Only aircraft originally manufactured before March 7th of 1988 are allowed to have the identification plate (aka "data plate") inside the cabin or cockpit.

To the original question, on a new homebuilt Cub replica there are three possibilities that meet Part 45. First, if you think of it early enough in the build process you can weld a flat plate on the fuselage structure that will become the "backing plate" for your data plate. Then, after the fuselage is covered you can install the data plate with rivets that go through the plate, through the fabric, and through this backing plate.

Second option is if you happen to think of the data plate while you're covering the airplane. In this scenario you lay your backing plate on top of the fabric in the desired location and trap it between the fuselage fabric and a second piece of fabric that you dope over top of it in the same manner as you would install a patch over an inspection ring. Then, after you're finished covering and painting you can rivet the data plate on with rivets that go through the data plate and the installed backing plate including both layers of fabric.

The last, and most common, installation scheme is for those who don't think of the data plate until the aircraft is essentially complete. In this scenario you rivet your data plate on the outside of the aircraft, trapping the fabric between the data plate on the outside and a backing plate on the inside. For this to work you'll need to put the data plate in a place where you can get your hand inside the fuselage to hold the backing plate on the inside while you (or someone) installs the data plate on the outside. The most common location is somewhere in the area of the tail, but just aft of the door is acceptable as well.

 

[mike mcs repair]

On the floorboard under the pilot seat is a location that fits that criteria. That data plate has to be stamped steel.

On a newly constructed aircraft the floorboard inside the aircraft is not an acceptable location for the data plate. It must be on the outside of the aircraft. Only aircraft originally manufactured before March 7th of 1988 are allowed to have the identification plate (aka "data plate") inside the cabin or cockpit.

To the original question, on a new homebuilt Cub replica there are three possibilities that meet Part 45. First, if you think of it early enough in the build process you can weld a flat plate on the fuselage structure that will become the "backing plate" for your data plate. Then, after the fuselage is covered you can install the data plate with rivets that go through the plate, through the fabric, and through this backing plate.

Second option is if you happen to think of the data plate while you're covering the airplane. In this scenario you lay your backing plate on top of the fabric in the desired location and trap it between the fuselage fabric and a second piece of fabric that you dope over top of it in the same manner as you would install a patch over an inspection ring. Then, after you're finished covering and painting you can rivet the data plate on with rivets that go through the data plate and the installed backing plate including both layers of fabric.

The last, and most common, installation scheme is for those who don't think of the data plate until the aircraft is essentially complete. In this scenario you rivet your data plate on the outside of the aircraft, trapping the fabric between the data plate on the outside and a backing plate on the inside. For this to work you'll need to put the data plate in a place where you can get your hand inside the fuselage to hold the backing plate on the inside while you (or someone) installs the data plate on the outside. The most common location is somewhere in the area of the tail, but just aft of the door is acceptable as well.

darn, you are right....

I would have got that one wrong too.... I just assumed it was same as everything else I work on....

 

[Steve Pierce]

Piper Service Bulletin 935 covers this on factory airplanes. Here is a plate welded on for the data tag.

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Steve)]

Stand corrected on the 1988 date. Forgot about that, do not normally work on anything that new.

Steve

 

[skywagon8a]

Second option is if you happen to think of the data plate while you're covering the airplane. In this scenario you lay your backing plate on top of the fabric in the desired location and trap it between the fuselage fabric and a second piece of fabric that you dope over top of it in the same manner as you would install a patch over an inspection ring. Then, after you're finished covering and painting you can rivet the data plate on with rivets that go through the data plate and the installed backing plate including both layers of fabric.

The last, and most common, installation scheme is for those who don't think of the data plate until the aircraft is essentially complete. In this scenario you rivet your data plate on the outside of the aircraft, trapping the fabric between the data plate on the outside and a backing plate on the inside. For this to work you'll need to put the data plate in a place where you can get your hand inside the fuselage to hold the backing plate on the inside while you (or someone) installs the data plate on the outside. The most common location is somewhere in the area of the tail, but just aft of the door is acceptable as well.

So you are saying that it is acceptable to secure the data plate to the fabric. I would not have thought that this would be OK. In a worst case scenario type of accident my thinking was that it could easily be " lost or destroyed". I shall sandwich it to the fabric.

Thank you for the replies.

 

[jnorris]

So you are saying that it is acceptable to secure the data plate to the fabric.

Yes, that is correct. It's better if you think if it early enough to weld in a backing plate as per Steve's picture above, but it's not required. The fabric itself is considered acceptable, as it is not "normally removed for service". The data plate itself won't be lost or destroyed in an accident even if the fabric is burned away. In fact, that's why they require the data plate to be "fireproof equivalent to steel", so that it will still be retrievable even if the aircraft burns.