Alaskan Experimental?

[cubdreamin]

I am not really sure what is entailed in building an experimental SC. Can you take a wrecked certified and rebuild as an experimental. I dont have an A&P does that matter?? I am 25 years old currently flying a 207 in the bush and dont have much cash but I have been dreaming of Super Cubs for far too long. I have about 700 hours flying SCs in the lower 48 but need my own now in Alaska. Any help would be greatly apprieciated.

 

[Dave Calkins]

Start scrounging for the small parts now with an eye for deals and keeping an eye out for a fuselage frame, engine, wings, etc.

Some other advice: Never spend more money than you are making, and save more of what you make than what you spend.

Take what cash you have saved and start buying the small parts as you scrounge them up wherever they are. Continue saving for a fuselage, engine, any 'big ticket' expenses on a schedule that your budget allows.

There is no easy way to make money and acquire things besides hard work. (good advice for anyone in any situation).

However, a SuperCub WILL happen for you if you can stick to a budget/saving/spending plan.

Sorry. But, you asked DAVE

 

[cubdreamin]

Thanks for the help

So I can put it together without an A&P? I could find a wrecked pieces and put it together as experimental?

 

[drew]

Ummm, no. Technically, you can't.

Do a quick search of this forum, paying close attention to everything jnorris says about experimentals.

But you can come pretty close to building an experimental SC out of parts, provided you obey the letter and spirit of the law.

And you don't need to be an A&P.

You could also apprentice to an A&P and assemble a certified Super Cub under his/her supervision.

 

[Chuck-Fairfax]

Dreamin,
You best try some Google searches, or look on the EAA website for discussions about the present FAA position on this. The FAA started to more tightly enforce the regulations on experimental amateur built aircraft a couple years ago. They made it clear that if you take components of a previously certificated aircraft, and incorporate them into an experimental, you can't count the work in them, including your efforts to restore, say, a wing or fuselage, towards the required 51%. They say that you are simply doing repairs of an existing part, not building anything towards your experimental amateur built aircraft.

I know that there have been many experimental aircraft built up from major components of standard certificated aircraft in the past, but the FAA basically says no more. Others will probably add to this thread and disagree, or have other interpretations, but my advice is to check out the written words from the FAA and the EAA, and not just go on posts like mine! Too much money and time is involved to not do it legally.
Good luck with your project. They can be built, as posted above.
Chuck Shaw

 

[cubdreamin]

How bout the cheapest way?

Im trying to find the cheapest way to get a cub of my own. Experimental or not. I thought experimental would be the way to go. Maybe not?

 

[Cub junkie]

Certified or Experimental, Cub and cheap usually don't fit together.

 

[T.W.]

How cheap are we talking?
Tim

 

[Icarus]

Unfortunately today its hard to build a Cub experimental or certified without spending MONEY $$$ A certified cub will cost more but not a lot more, depending on what you start with. Buy a kit for $40,000 buy an engine and then you better have some time. 600 hours for a total build probably more if you don't have experience or tools Some have bought a wrecked cub sell the books, data tag and a few parts to be legit and recoup some of the cost and then use the parts from the wreck. Ask the shop guys on this site starting with nothing you are looking at $40,000 in parts $8000-$15000 ON an engine, prop $2700, bushwheels for $3400 plus your labor 6months - 2 years of blood sweat & tears. $65,000 - $80,000 you can buy a nice cub. Sorry no easy answer been there done that BEST OF LUCK and KEEP TRYING eventually it will work! And oh so SWEET it will be ASK ANYONE ON THIS SITE

 

[cubdreamin]

As cheap as possible

As cheap as I can find. Ive sent some guys letters when I come across half fallin apart cubs in Alaska but no responses. Any suggestions?

 

[WWhunter]

Another route may be to get something else first before a Super Cub. There are lots of other planes out there that can be bought that are good for quasi bush work. Sure, they aren't SC's but at least you are flying. J-3's are half the price as are bigger engined Champs, Citabria's (7GCBC), Taylorcraft's just to name a few.
I wanted a SC in the worst way also but really couldn't afford it. Ended up getting talked into trying an O-235 powered Champ by a fellow member on this board. I bought it and am quiet happy with it. Do I still want a SC? OF COURSE!! Maybe someday I'll have one, but in the mean time I am having a blast with the Champ and it burns less fuel!!
WW

 

[mvivion]

Cubdreamin,

As others have noted, the Experimental/Homebuilt rules are tightening up, and legally, you never have been permitted to just construct an experimental homebuilt by just assembling certified parts. You have to fabricate at least 51%.

Also, as others have noted, an experimental isn't necessarily any cheaper than a certified airplane.

Perhaps more importantly, you can legally operate a certified airplane for compensation or hire, and you cannot do so with an experimental.

So, if the opportunity to work your airplane ever came up, and you'd built an experimental.....no show.

Follow Dave Calkins' advice, and stick to a certified SC.

MTV

 

[cubdreamin]

Thanks guys

Thats a great tip. I spose id be happy with anything to get me into the bush. Start getting experience landing off airport as cheap as possible. Thanks guys.

 

[Fortysix12]

I'm building as inexpensive as it can be done and I'm over 40K. That is without any main component fabrication to save money, It is quite a commitment. It can be done for less - I think with more scrounging. Smaller engine, more use parts. Don't' rule out a partnership on certified flying 18 CUB. They can work and it allows you into a nicer plane immediately

 

[AntiCub]

There are several companies offering Cub copies as kits or plans that are built as an experimental - amateur built. Not to mention a whole slug of similar aircraft.

And obviously the more time you're willing to spend the cheaper it will be. For example you can weld up a fuselage for less than $2,000 worth of tubing, or buy a ready to go one for $10,000 (or more?). Of course it will probably take me a full Alaskan winter to do that, not counting all the little tabs, brackets and fittings required. But that's something I'm looking forward to, not some thing I see as necessary to get me flying.

Another example, you can buy a new ready to run engine for about $25,000, or buy a high time one for $8,000 to $10,000 and spend $5,000 on parts to rebuild it yourself.

But it sounds like your primary goal is to get flying as quickly as possible, so your best bet is probably to save your pennies for an airworthy plane. I'd second the suggestion to look at other aircraft in the mean time. Even a T-craft is a good performer if you keep it lightly loaded. And a 115hp or 135hp C-140 is another good performer (there's one Craig's list). Personally, if you can live without a super cub I'd place more value on a planes condition than what exactly it is.

Just my 2 cents.
Phil

 

[upda lk]

Experimental cub

Question? If you purchase flying experimental cub type, can you then more easily and cheaply upgrade the fuselage, engine, amphib floats etc.?

 

[supercubc37]

Upda,

The short answer is yes, owners of experimentals can upgrade whatever they want on their aircraft. Each experimental will have it's own set of operating limitations. The aircraft operating limitations will describe what to do after a major change is completed. If you have an older set of operating limitations that basically says that no changes can be made then you can write a letter to your FSDO that describes the changes you want to the operating limitations and apply for a new airworthiness certificate. The aircraft may or may not need to be reinspected by your FSDO your mileage may vary of course.

Just so you know we have three experimentals all built since 2000 and all three have different operating limitations.

Matt

 

[R. JOHNSON]

One thing to keep in mind with the experimental route, yes you'll have alot of money in it but it's spread out over time. You buy as you go like Dave said. If you decide to go with experimental and can weld, I'd either go with a Spracker tack welded fuse or Bushwacker Air's fuselage tubing kit that has all the tubing pre-cut. And as for wings I have to imagine Ak is full of used Piper wing parts. If you bought blank spar extrusions cut and drilled them and the used serviceable parts to assemble the wings you could do it fairly cheap. It all comes down to how good of a scrounge you are. Take a look at the July issue of Sport Aviation with Tim Butles Husky Chasers. They're not bush ready Super Cub clones but the article will give you an idea on what can be built on a tight budget.

Ryan

 

[mvivion]

Ryan,

You're right about all those wing parts in Alaska, but unfortunately, most of them are bent, some more than once... :lol:

MTV

 

[Jim Miller]

I had the same question during a PA22 rebuild and now I am building a exp supercub using some pa22 parts. The basic answer to your question is no. The FAA rules are tough on using certified parts salvaged from wrecked aircraft. For example if you take a PA18 rudder from a wrecked airplane and use it you get zero rudder credit. No covering credit, nothing.
Now if you call univair and order a new PMA PA18 rudder or buy a turbine cub not PMA rudder, you get all the credit on the checklist except fabrication. Since the 51% checklist is undergoing revision it won't help much to study it now, but when finalized download a copy and look it over closely.

 

[5139Y]

alaskan experimental?

The way I had a fed explain it to me this spring was I had to do significant alterations to the factory parts. In furthering the discussion it became clear that significant is a term that is unclear. It sounded to me that the mods I had done to my fuse. were enough to qualify according to this fellow. Would it satisfy the next fed? Who knows. It sounds like you had better stick to a cub that is certified. I say this because I have been in AK my entire life and involved with cubs and bush and guiding. Have seen a ton of you guys move here and lots of you end up in the fly for hire game. Go certified. You can start with a cheaper ride. I have a friend in TKA that does a good business in a t cart on floats. Builds skills and is cheap to fly

 

[dustrpilot]

Hi folks. New to this site and this is my first post so forgive me if this has been asked already. I have acquired some Pacer stuff, wings, tail feathers and some gear legs. What I had in mind was a home built Super Cub fuselage and using the wings and tail that I bought, but sounds like that might not work as far as the 51% rule goes. Any ideas about replacing the wing spars with longer ones and adding the extra ribs to make the wings experimental,thus complying with the 51% rule?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[btracy]

If you buy a kit project that has already been started by some one else how is the 51% rule applied?

 

[Steve J]

I am 60 years old and am not into Patience or Waiting. I always want to fly NOW !!! I recently bought a J-3 converted to 100Hp PA-11 Expirimental in very good condition and included custom floats. Total price Delivered from Washington State to Baton Rouge--$ 27,500 with fresh annual. Is a great performer on both wheels and floats. It needs NOTHING.
Earlier in the year I bought a Tri-Pacer converted to a tail dragger with wing and fuselage extensions, new fabric, clean interior and 160 Hp Lyc for $ 25,000. I added SC gear and 25" Goodyears and now have a great bush plane. Total cost delivered and with new gear--$ 33,000.

2 years ago I bought a 150 SC with all Ak mods for $ 43,000. It needed nothing. I sold it after flying for 2 years for $ 60,000. Then I bought a tricked out Wag-Aero 2+2 with 180 Hp on 25" Goodyears with a set of straight floats for $ 48,000.
Bottom line is that there are lots of good bush planes out there for the price of a tricked out Silverado !!! Best time to buy is Winter. So save your nickels and start looking-- Fly by spring.
Steve J

 

[aktango58]

Re: Thanks guys

Thats a great tip. I spose id be happy with anything to get me into the bush. Start getting experience landing off airport as cheap as possible. Thanks guys.

Cheap???????????
Do not start with a supercub!!!!!!

Every time you take it out to learn and get experience you chance an expensive pile of junk!

Taylorcraft, Champ, Aeronca, cessna 120,140, j-3 (still expensive), kitfox, avid... and many other planes will give you inexpensive access to flying off airports at a fraction of the investment and hourly cost of a 18.

There is no substitute for a certified 18 when you find the job to pay for it, but until then there are many others that will teach you the tecnique, judgement and lessons that need to be learned on the road to working safely off airport.

Read the books on the old pilots and what they flew. The supercub had plenty of compeditors along the way.

For under $20k you can get into a plane to begin the process. As you fly it, learn to keep it in great shape. Then you can save and trade up as you get experience and $$$

 

[CptKelly]

Cubdreamin...

Cubdreamin,
You should consider a 85-100hp J3, a Taylorcraft, a Champ, a Cessna 120/140, and other certified planes. If you are bound and determined to go experimental, look at the Just Highlander. On their website, they show clips of short field performance takeoffs that would put many supercubs to shame. I've looked at one myself, but don't really need any more airplanes. Here is their website: http://www.justaircraft.com/page.php?9

Mike

 

[Selvaoscura]

Re: Cubdreamin...

Cubdreamin,
You should consider a 85-100hp J3, a Taylorcraft, a Champ, a Cessna 120/140, and other certified planes. If you are bound and determined to go experimental, look at the Just Highlander. On their website, they show clips of short field performance takeoffs that would put many supercubs to shame. I've looked at one myself, but don't really need any more airplanes. Here is their website: http://www.justaircraft.com/page.php?9

Mike

Hi,
that's my first post. I am really new to this fantastic website and I apologize for my bad English. I would like only to add a possible alternative, similar in concept to the above mentioned JustAircraft.
The company is Zlin Aviation. They use also Bushwheels. Nothing compared to the great SC, but not too bad..
Bye bye now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o3RK-RpJmY
www.zlinaero.com

 

[Cub junkie]

The Savage looks better than the RANS S 7 with the rounded wing tips and cublike tail. The gear looks stronger. Are RANS and the builders of the Savage in a business agreement or is this just a blatant copy of the Rans?

 

[Selvaoscura]

The Savage looks better than the RANS S 7 with the rounded wing tips and cublike tail. The gear looks stronger. Are RANS and the builders of the Savage in a business agreement or is this just a blatant copy of the Rans?

..
I don't know..You have to ask to them...
I just posted the link..

 

[PA12-763]

CubDreamin,

I was in your boat a couple of years ago. I wanted a good trainer, but CFI stated it had to be a tandem. I bought a 135HP J5A and it turned out to be an awesome plane. Many modifications and is a blast to fly when its light. I wanted an 18, but the 6'1" tall wife said no way. Ended up with a tricked PA12, both planes were much cheaper than an 18 in similar shape. Good luck- db

(first post: we'll see how it turns out)