Adding oil to fuel

[wacodriver]

There is much talking about the side effects of alcohol containing fuel in aviation. <br>Recently, I read some information about the benefits of adding 2-stroke-engine oil to fuel to cure most problems caused by the 5% alcohol in car gas, like corrosion on metal parts, swelling or hardening rubber hoses and seals. It also should improve fuel stability during long time storage in tanks while not flying often. It also works on stuck piston rings and improve top lubrication. They recommended a mixture of 1:100. <br>I know, there are many different opinions about use of MMO in fuel and oil of our flat Lycoming engines. What could become a problem when adding 2-stroke oil?<br>Thore

 

[$hotgun]

Who is they?

 

[OLDCROWE]

Who is they?

perhaps, they who sell carberator cleaner

 

[Carey Gray]

I've been running left over 50:1 boat gas in my lawn mower for years. The mower will be old enough to buy me a beer soon.
I've also heard stories of engines that burned a little oil lasting longer than engines that didn't use any. A little upper cylinder lube, perhaps? Lots of farmers/farm boys use MMO regularly in gas. I might know a few.

 

[Cub@H20]

I read the articles written by the proponents of adding synthetic 2 cycle oil (in lieu of MMO) to 100LL fuel. The main argument in favor of doing so is due to the fact that synthetic 2 cycle oil has a higher flash point as compared to MMO. This means that, in theory, it will provide upper cylinder lubrication without the loss of its effect during combustion. What I discovered during annual was some distortion of carb/gascolator gaskets after using it for about a year. Perhaps something else caused the problem, but as a result I discontinued its use. Gary

 

[DW]

Gary were you useing mo-gas or 100LL only if you switch back and forth between the two I have found that the cork gaskets will distort and leak.

 

[Cub@H20]

I was switching back and forth. This agrees with your findings. Gary

 

[qsmx440]

I have been using two stroke mix for years in all kinds of four strokes. The two stroke 50:1 oil contains strong anti carboning agents that de-carbonize the cylinders (according to the OMC outboard school I attended years ago). I don't like to leave mix laying around so if it's not used in a short time (especially in the Quicksilver) it goes into some four stroke engine. Be careful if you have a coked up engine it's best to take it apart and decarbonize before adding the mix or it can knock big chunks of carbon loose that can stick in valves. All that said I would never run this stuff in a 4 stroke aircraft engine because neither of the manufacturers recommends it. I add small leftover quantities to regular gas so no mixture problems (the more oil you add the leaner the mixture, your not richening it like a lot of folks claim). Some one said it has a higher flash point but I don't think thats correct. When the mix enters the bottom end of a 2 stroke the oil "condenses" out of the gas during the pressure phase to lub the lower end. When you dismantle a two stroke you should find some qty of oil in the bottom end. . Alcohol gas is no good and was probably causing your other problems. I started using E10 last year when the farm coop stopped carrying the "good stuff" and this year stuck a perfectly good Stihl chainsaw with 6 month old E10 mix! I know better but I used to get by with it with pure gas. Dumb. I finally signed up for a "special" station that sells the last pure gas around but they say even that will go away. Everything will get avgas after that.

 

[On Patrol]

MMO is in use in the northeast for years. It is succesfull when on floats in wet environs controlling carbon.

 

[Bassackwards]

I have an old Case forklift that used to foul the plugs on a maddening regular basis. We always put MMO in the PW 450 on the Ag Cat so I thought what the heck. After I added MMO to the forklift its never fouled plugs since. I believe!

 

[180Marty]

qsmx440 wrote

I started using E10 last year when the farm coop stopped carrying the "good stuff" and this year stuck a perfectly good Stihl chainsaw with 6 month old E10 mix!

You had me worried when I read that so I just went and started my Stihl that hasn't been started for a couple of months. The E10/oil was mixed last February(7 months ago) and the tank on the saw looked like it had about 3/4's. It ran good and didn't even smoke. You've motivated me to go cut some scrub trees out of the fence line after while. Will let you know if it locks up. I find it funny when you talk about carbon buildup, that is what you get for running what you call the "good stuff"---doesn't happen with E blends. As for the question from Germany, I know of several airplanes using E10 without mixing oil but if you really think it is needed, I'd use 1/2 to 1% biodiesel just like certified AGE85 aviation fuel does. It is 88% ethanol,11% pentane, and a little biodiesel. It is well over 100 octane.

 

[JP]

Marvel Magical Mystery Oil....

 

[StewartB]

I used to add MMO to my fuel as a steady practice until Ed Kollin (Mr. Camguard) told me what was in it. While I had been convinced it was beneficial while using it I've noticed zero change after stopping. If a problem came up that warranted Stoddard Solvent and motor oil in my gas tank I wouldn't hesitate to treat it with a dose of MMO but I don't see a need to use it every day.

SB

 

[180Marty]

Question for you MMO users. What happens when a straight slug of that goes through the engine? I think Patrol Guy reported that he added MMO to a 500 gallon ??? storage tank and when he looked in it sometime later, it had separated and a puddle of MMO was on the bottom. Correct me if I'm wrong John.

 

[StewartB]

Marty,

When sumping fuel laced with MMO there's evidence the red dye is attracted to water in the fuel. Water drops in the sump cup range from pink to red. It's definitely water, though, not the oil/solvent component of MMO. Those parts must remain incorporated in the fuel.

SB

 

[180Marty]

Thanks Stewart, I've played around with E10 and E85 by adding a small % of biodiesel and found it doesn't separate either.

 

[180Marty]

qsmx440 wrote

I started using E10 last year when the farm coop stopped carrying the "good stuff" and this year stuck a perfectly good Stihl chainsaw with 6 month old E10 mix!

180Marty wrote

You had me worried when I read that so I just went and started my Stihl that hasn't been started for a couple of months. The E10/oil was mixed last February(7 months ago) and the tank on the saw looked like it had about 3/4's. It ran good and didn't even smoke. You've motivated me to go cut some scrub trees out of the fence line after while. Will let you know if it locks up. I find it funny when you talk about carbon buildup, that is what you get for running what you call the "good stuff"---doesn't happen with E blends. As for the question from Germany, I know of several airplanes using E10 without mixing oil but if you really think it is needed, I'd use 1/2 to 1% biodiesel just like certified AGE85 aviation fuel does. It is 88% ethanol,11% pentane, and a little biodiesel. It is well over 100 octane.

Just an update---yesterday it got up to 50 degrees so I cut two more trees down with the Stihl that was new in 2001. The E10/oil was mixed last February but the saw still had good power. You guys that don't have any shelf life with your gas should complain to the oil company that they shouldn't pass off such poor quality. Evidently here in Iowa, I am very fortunate.

 

[cubdriver2]

180Marty wrote

Just an update---yesterday it got up to 50 degrees so I cut two more trees down with the Stihl that was new in 2001. The E10/oil was mixed last February but the saw still had good power. You guys that don't have any shelf life with your gas should complain to the oil company that they shouldn't pass off such poor quality. Evidently here in Iowa, I am very fortunate.

In a vented container or did you have it sealed somehow ?

Glenn

 

[180Marty]

In a vented container or did you have it sealed somehow ?

Sealed the best I could--- 1 and 1/2 gallon jug with a flexible rubber spout. Lost rubber plug so twisted a piece of paper towel in end and put baggie over end and cinched that with a bread wrapper tie. Probably wouldn't hold pressure but cut down on air coming and going.

 

[Jim Scarborough]

I have used MMO for over 40yrs in everthing that fuel goes in, Motorcycle 2 and 4 stroke, 911s, Mercedes 300d, every tractor, old or new. Take apart any engine after a life time uses of MMO in both crankcase and fuel and you will not find any sludge, anywhere. I have it in one tank always, and take off and land with the other 100LL. I also have used Prolong with great success and that 0235 was going strong at 2600hr. Oil is not what it was 20 yrs ago, go online and look up API oil rating(s) and find out more about it. I use oil from a company out of Dallas TX, called SWEPCO. Oil is the life blood of an air cooled engine, chose wisely.

 

[DesperadoPilot]

I run straight Av-Gas and Shell Aviation Motor Oil, and I ain't never had any problems.

 

[3977P]

you wont find any sludge in crankcase because marvel mystery oil has solivent in it, you just break down the oil by adding it .

 

[fobjob]

The one time I added MMO to my fuel tank, it apparently dissolved lacquer left on my tank walls from mogas, and sludged up my fuel flow sensor. It makes one wonder what the effects of ethanol bearing mogas would be if suddenly added to a tank with lotsa lacquer deposits on the walls... plugged filters, maybe? Or, more likely, just a cleaned tank....????

 

[180Marty]

I

It makes one wonder what the effects of ethanol bearing mogas would be if suddenly added to a tank with lotsa lacquer deposits on the walls... plugged filters, maybe? Or, more likely, just a cleaned tank....????

I know of people starting to use E10 after years of pure E0 with no problems. You make a good point though, and I know what I'd do------fill the tanks with E10, let sit for a few days, and then drain the system before taking flight and see what comes out. If it looks like a lot of residue comes out, filter and put in your old car or tractor. Just think of the extra usable fuel you'll have if the tanks had lots of buildup.:lol:

 

[fobjob]

That's what I will do, but my feeling is, that with 10% ethanol, it should take care of just about any amount of lacquer....but I will test that assumption...