Haha sarcasm? They still aren't pushing the envelope and only used the first notch of flaps here. When they install an EPeX400Ti later this year it'll be a rocket ship!
Zlin Savage Norden
- Thread starter jetcat11
- Start date
Haha sarcasm? They still aren't pushing the envelope and only used the first notch of flaps here. When they install an EPeX400Ti later this year it'll be a rocket ship!
Farmboy
SPONSOR
Fort Edward, NY - Fairview, OK
Nice tufted wing video (and flaps). Too bad speeds aren’t shown.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBBTD9EBQVd/?igshid=biftgm6o40p3
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CBBTD9EBQVd/?igshid=biftgm6o40p3
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I wonder what type of instrumentation they are using to determine that speed? 15 mph is not very much.
I’m not exactly sure what was used for that test flight but they like to use GPS ground speed on the calmest days they can find. Check out at 3:10 with the last model. https://youtu.be/4v8A9RVmLHk
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Look at the windsock at 2:55.
You’re right, there’s probably 6-8 knots of wind there. At Valdez last year if I remember correctly the winds were about 3-5 knots. Look at 3:14:48. https://youtu.be/vZ6ABfdiiP0 That was the shortest landing at the show with a stock airplane which is cool.
At 3:55 this Shock Ultra is definitely flying under 20 mph with zero wind. https://www.facebook.com/ZlinAviation/videos/1064509173683524/?d=n
Here is that video a little bit larger. I found it interesting that the front cowl has been removed for this particular test. This is almost at the forward CG location with the latest frise ailerons that will be used during production going forward. They are now ready to produce the first batch of Norden wings.
https://www.facebook.com/207488079385642/posts/1837254353075665/?vh=e&d=n
https://www.facebook.com/207488079385642/posts/1837254353075665/?vh=e&d=n
Here’s an update from Zlin today.
“800 lbs (363 kg) Savage Norden with Rotax 915?”
“As we anticipated last February, the prototype has been reworked, to get this empty weight. And we did it.
The target was to offer to the market a lighter version of our plane to improve the STOL performances and with these main characteristics: full metal wing, retractable slats, double slotted flaps, carbon wing tips, 140 lt fuel tanks, "Rotax 915”, carbon cowling and 4 blade propeller, extended landing gear, 22” tires (in these pics we show the 29” ), soft baggage, carbon seats covered with Alcantara, carbon floorboards.
To get these results, we worked on every single detail, using as much as possible, carbon parts and also covering the fuselage with Oratex 6000. In the meantime, and with performances in mind, we have even asked to one our supplier, the propeller manufacturer Propellers E-Props, to build a larger propeller to explore better the STOL performances.
As you can see, we tried to design even a new paint scheme. The Oratex in black, is really nice, but we didn’t want to have and offer a total black plane. We tried to make something different, keeping in mind the final weight increase and painting the plane as less as possible…”
“800 lbs (363 kg) Savage Norden with Rotax 915?”
“As we anticipated last February, the prototype has been reworked, to get this empty weight. And we did it.
The target was to offer to the market a lighter version of our plane to improve the STOL performances and with these main characteristics: full metal wing, retractable slats, double slotted flaps, carbon wing tips, 140 lt fuel tanks, "Rotax 915”, carbon cowling and 4 blade propeller, extended landing gear, 22” tires (in these pics we show the 29” ), soft baggage, carbon seats covered with Alcantara, carbon floorboards.
To get these results, we worked on every single detail, using as much as possible, carbon parts and also covering the fuselage with Oratex 6000. In the meantime, and with performances in mind, we have even asked to one our supplier, the propeller manufacturer Propellers E-Props, to build a larger propeller to explore better the STOL performances.
As you can see, we tried to design even a new paint scheme. The Oratex in black, is really nice, but we didn’t want to have and offer a total black plane. We tried to make something different, keeping in mind the final weight increase and painting the plane as less as possible…”
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I don’t know the exact number but it was around 930 pounds as it had a parachute, ACME’s, ACME stinger with the baby bushwheel, etc. I think a well optioned LSA Norden with 26” Airstreaks could come in around 850 pounds with ACME’s and a T3 tailwheel.
Set up like that @ 850lbs is a recipe for a great performer! Hope to see it offered in kit form eventually!
Well everything you see in the pictures I just posted minus the 29” tires for 22” tires weighs in at 800 pounds empty. I’m figuring the 915 SLSA models will come in around 850-875 pounds as the US requires more equipment anyways and how most here will have them optioned.
The 915 iS weighs about as much as an O-200D installed at around 200 pounds and is good for 145HP to 15,000FT. They weighed the engine attached to the firewall with propeller and spinner and it weighed in at 243 pounds.
It is extremely impressive and there are many carbon fiber parts used throughout such as the cowling, floorboards, drooped tips, and a new 80” 4 blade E-PROPS propeller that only weighs 5.3 pounds! I can’t wait to see what this week brings for new testing and evaluation with this lighter empty weight.
It is extremely impressive and there are many carbon fiber parts used throughout such as the cowling, floorboards, drooped tips, and a new 80” 4 blade E-PROPS propeller that only weighs 5.3 pounds! I can’t wait to see what this week brings for new testing and evaluation with this lighter empty weight.
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Dang! I would not have won this bet. https://fb.watch/7v-tA_g7L9/
soyAnarchisto
MEMBER
Boulder, CO
Anybody have one of these in the US where we can see and fly it? I didn't see these guys at Oshkosh - but I admit I wasn't looking for them.
soyAnarchisto
MEMBER
Boulder, CO
Utah-Jay
MEMBER
Heber City, UT
Factory build, I do not believe they are currently selling kits.
Deliver will be soon I suspect.
Rob
Registered User
AZ06
Seems to me with all that ground clearance, A massive 2 blade prop would go much further in increasing the stol aspect of this plane vs trying to lighten up a plane that's already reasonably light. What are they trying to gain by the smaller disc out front? cruise speed?
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
An engineer who I respect told me long ago that the most efficient propeller has only one blade. Each additional blade is operating in the wake turbulence of the preceding blade. The main or perhaps only reason for more blades is to harness the horsepower from the larger engines. Of course there are other reasons more technical in nature. Also the larger the diameter, the larger the mass of air is "pushed" back creating more thrust. The diameter is limited due to clearance needs or tip speed limitations. A long slow turning propeller is the most efficient.
This one Everel, is mounted on a pivot which allows the blade to seek it's own angle depending upon the speed of rotation and load.
This is a 96" propeller for a 90 horsepower Curtis Jenny which had a slow turning 8 cylinder OX-5 engine.
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
Three blade props.....flew them for 30 years, now with the 2 blade Prince. Aero benefits aside, when working in the hangar, a 2 blade is more user friendly, a 3 blade always has 1 blade in the way. I have a 3 blade hanging on the wall, a spare in case I trash the Prince,
Rob
Registered User
AZ06
Efficiency aside, it seems to me that when guys are talking stol like Valdez, Texas whatever and yea haw stuff, they are looking at take off distances in the two digit (in feet) category. In that range, I've always been of the opinion that how much lift you can generate still in 'the stall', is more valuable than how much lift you can generate squirting it down the runway on thrust. By 'in the stall' I mean lift generated at a stand still.
And while I realize moving a segment or air across the wing faster creates more lift, at the lift off speed of most of these light weight buggies, it seems to me getting a wider swath of air across the wing would get you airborne sooner.
You wouldn't have to spin a 32' prop very fast to get a cub weight aircraft to levitate.
I think this becomes less important than insta thrust as the weight curve goes up. which is why there are so many Skywagon guys that really enjoy light 3 blade composite props in spite of their other short comings.
I am not an engineer, and was mostly honestly curious. Perhaps a little top end speed was the goal? Or perhaps a quieter prop? I imagine that engine is louder than that 4 blade.
Take care, Rob
And while I realize moving a segment or air across the wing faster creates more lift, at the lift off speed of most of these light weight buggies, it seems to me getting a wider swath of air across the wing would get you airborne sooner.
You wouldn't have to spin a 32' prop very fast to get a cub weight aircraft to levitate.
I think this becomes less important than insta thrust as the weight curve goes up. which is why there are so many Skywagon guys that really enjoy light 3 blade composite props in spite of their other short comings.
I am not an engineer, and was mostly honestly curious. Perhaps a little top end speed was the goal? Or perhaps a quieter prop? I imagine that engine is louder than that 4 blade.
Take care, Rob
