why so heavy.

[pzinck]

i guess after reading the discussion on floats in which m vivion claims the husky outperforms cubs on floats,it made me ask why most people butcher cubs.i have a couple and love them, i just wonder why so many people try to make them into an instrument platform,or a mini 206.this takes the magic out of these planes.i realize some of the guys workin em need extra stuff,thats their job,their customers rely on them for safety and performing a service.but all the others probably dont even know what a real cub flys like.a com,transponder and elt is a must,but the rest should be left in their 185,s or 206,s in my opinion.its not that that stuff isnt great,but flyin a light cub is just magic.most cubs are embarassing compared to 20 years ago.all these stol mods are a must to get these fancy jobs off the water.some of you dont know what youre missing.dont mean to offend anyone,but save som money and have more fun.

 

[Crash]

Huskys

Take what you read here with a grain of salt. These Husky drivers are known to flap their lips a lot. Twice I challanged them to a fly off with a 1,000 bucks on the table and they turned yellow and shut up. I've yet to see a Husky beat a 180 hp Super Cub on floats, wheels or skis for that matter.

I am also in your camp on all the wing mod garbage. The guys that work them leave them stock and can fly circles around a novice in a modified wing Cub. Crash

 

[sj]

I would tend to agree with the wing mods (except VGs), if they had not come with the airplane, I would have kept the stock wing. I have an extended wing with droops. I do like the long ailerons though...

If I could afford a 206 (or better yet, a 185), and a place outside of the class B airspace to keep my supercub, I would strip all the stuff out of the cub and stick it in the 206 - except maybe the cushy seats and the cupholders...

sj

 

[RedEye]

heavy

pzinck,
Amen !! I know a guy here with a PA-12 thats got 30 thousand dolloars in radios & IFR equip. , droop tips, VG's, etc., etc.! Only fly's the thing about 10hrs a year. Go figure !! On the other hand I fly regularly to Canada fishing with a friend thats got a 90hp non-electric Champ with a hand held radio. Who's having more fun !!! :roll:

 

[cub_driver]

Guys

I have to agree with you keep that cub as light as possible. If you have to have a 2000 pound STC or the talked about 2300 pound STC to keep yourself flying legal you might want to think about selling that cub and buying a Maule, 180, 185 or 206.

Its all to easy to add weight to these airplanes they are the CJ5 jeeps of aircraft and need to be light to perform.

Cub_Driver

 

[cubdrvr]

So where is the fly-off between Crash and Mike V going to take place?
Can I use the local bookie........... :lol:

 

[Crash]

Bookie

Mike V and Flagpole have left the building.... Crash

 

[Jerry Burr]

Light

Weighing in at 804 lbs with 198 sq ft of wing, I have always felt that 1150lbs was heavy. I guess it's all relative to where you are. Keeping charged batteries in the com and gps is not my idea of (fun) as much as what's needed to do the job. There are some very nice airplanes around that are flown a lot less than 10hrs per year. But they provide the owner with the ability to say, ( I'm a pilot and I have an airplane ). To use that line in the local pub is worth more than the actual airplane to some people. Again, it's all relative. Jerry.

 

[mvivion]

Crash,

Problem is, "my" Husky is actually "your" Husky. They won't let me use it for fun.

Bummer.

They're all fun, though.

You need to fly a Husky for a bit, just for perspective, not to suggest you might actually like it, though.

For what it's worth, I'll take the Husky any time I've got a small lake and trees to get out of.

And the difference is that I've been there and done that in both.

The other point is that there are situations where I'd choose the Cub as well.

Take that.

MTV

 

[WhiskeyMike]

wing mods

I had a J-5 with a 180, wings extended, skylight etc. When I first flew it at 980 lbs without starter or batt etc, it was a rocket. (I had the fuselage drawings and it is essentially the same as a PA-12 except for a couple of minor tubes) and the Cub type gear -which people go back to anyway.

Anyway, We damaged a spill plate - flat oversize airfoil shape on the end. Flying with one on and one off didn't reveal anything at all. Do droop tips actually do anything. I bought a 600 Stearman form Ace Demers with the big tips, and if you used rudder to lift a low wing it would pull that side down really hard.

I've flown Cubs with gurney flaps. - Small 90' alum angles on the trailing edge. Look strange, but seem to really help. Any comments or experience in those?? VG,s seem to help the elevators.

 

[Jerry Burr]

Testing.

As far as testing wing tips you have to change both of them at the same time and have the same tip on both wings. That is to say you have to test a pair of them on separate flights. Unless of course you have contra-rotating propellers. The minute you touch the rudder your test is garbage. I once fastened 35lbs of lead to the outboard end of the right lift struts to test wingtips. It took a lot of aileron in cruise to hold the wing up. But when slowing to the stall it became the light wing due to the prop. Been there done that. Jerry.

 

[pzinck]

jerry burr

glad to see youre still around.someday ill get back out west and ill try to run into you mr.burr. would like to pry some of those cub tricks from youre memory and bring them back east.i guess it may be some time though,its been thirteen years without a week off.i could take more time off , but would have to sell planes.and i also want all you guys to know there are a few poor people who own cubs.

 

[WhiskeyMike]

WIngtips

Jerry

Thanks for the feedback on the tips. Do you have an opinion on droop tips vs. spill plates for pure low speed lift. My PA-12 flies till its just about goin' straight up and still don't wanna quit. Aileron and rudder control just aren't a problem. Though - especially at 8.000 feet, I could use ALL the lift possible. We have 3 very large bays outside the aileron using Piper wing spar splice kits. I feel very strongly about weight as an issue, and so maybe that's why the picture of your Cub has always been one of my 2 or 3 favorites. Anyone out there know about the gurney flaps?

 

[Crash]

Weight

Weight is dependent what the plane (Super Cub) is (City or Bush) and how you use it. If I'm sitting on the end of a 400' sand bar with 500 lbs of moose meat in the back seat and a 70 lb rack on the lift struts. Looking at a big spruce tree laying across the end of the strip that I will have to clear, then over a swift, deep, cold Alaskan river in late September. In this case I'll take my 1200 lb, 180 hp PA-18 over an 800 lb, 90 hp J-3 any day. Crash

 

[Jerry Burr]

What the hey

Sheech Crash. I haven't even thought of you in months and here you are on my case again. You forgot the modified wings this time. :lol: Jerry. You must have a very talented knife to trim that thar moose and horns to exactly 1770 gross.

 

[Crash]

Moose Hair

Jerry; I knew that would get a rise from you. Seriously, I hope to meet you some day. We work on different ends of the spectrum, but I respect what you do. Take care. Crash

P.S. I've never been caught over gross. I only shoot skinny moose.

 

[Torch]

I wish I had $5 for every person that told me his/her or the Federal Government's aircraft would out perform my Super Cub.

 

[StewartB]

If your mission was to move 1000# of bulky cargo to a 600'+ strip and do it fast......my Cessna would spank your Cub every time. Every airplane has a niche. And conversely, every airplane has a weakness.

Some feds fly helicopters. No Cub's gonna outperform that! I want an
R-44 when I grow up.
SB

 

[mvivion]

StewartB,

Yepper!! Or maybe an AStar. You are absolutely correct, though: When you are doing a job, choose the tool that'll do your job the best, with you at the controls. If that tool is a turbine Porter, what's wrong with that.

I've watched guys with Helios do precisely what Crash described, and then some, with more aboard. Does that make the Helio a better airplane than the Cub?

Simple answer: Not at all.

Complex answer: Depends.

We'll all be wearing Depends sometime, if we're mean enough to hang around that long, so that's my answer.

Did I mention that they're all a blast? Some just blast a little more than others, but who cares?

MTV

 

[Crash]

Load

If your mission was to move 1000# of bulky cargo to a 600'+ strip and do it fast......my Cessna would spank your Cub every time. Every airplane has a niche. And conversely, every airplane has a weakness.

Some feds fly helicopters. No Cub's gonna outperform that! I want an
R-44 when I grow up.
SB

Be careful, this has been said before and the Cessna guy got his ass whipped by the Super Cub. You don't have two lift struts to carry things on. Bungee a pre hung 3.0 exterior metal door with half glass and frame on one set of struts and a table saw on the other side. With a lumber rack full of lumber. I've flown large windows on my lift struts you couldn't even get through the door of a 185. With a Firman belly pod, large lower baggage and upper baggage plus the lift struts I could give you a run for your money and get into and out of places you can only dream about. Crash

 

[StewartB]

Naw, for that stuff I'll hire a freight hauler, fly behind him in my comfortable and rather attractive plane, land, unload, and hand him a check. I got past trashing my stuff. I'll let somebody else do it and pay them for the service. It's much cheaper in the long run. But, this weekend, I'll have 1000# in the Cessna, fly fast to our strip, land and stop by my tie-downs. That's my normal mission, and I don't do it to prove anything to anybody. If you want to tie a bunch of crap on your pretty new struts because I can't, knock yourself out.

I've never felt the urge to fly a table saw and a door to anyplace I can't land the Cessna, anyway. In case I do, I know who to call. Maybe I'll tag along in the 12, so you can keep up.
SB

 

[pzinck]

supercub vs. 185.

They are both nice planes. Recently bought newer 185 no damage history, and very low time. how come it still flys like a dump truck?.

 

[StewartB]

Couldn't say. I've never flown a dump truck. If it flies so bad, why'd you buy it?
SB

 

[pzinck]

185

Stewart i was just joking.All my buddies run down fabric planes so i tell them that.The 185 is really nice,but been flying supercubs so long and defending them it comes natural.If i go more than a hundred miles ill take the 185. If the engine quit ill take the supercub over anything .There are some planes and helicopters in that situation that"ll land shorter,but none safer,or close to 1 piece.

 

[StewartB]

I agree with that, too. I like them all. Like you and your buddies, Crash and I have been arguing the merits of Cessna v Piper for longer than this site has existed. I broke first, and got a Piper. Hey, Crash, I know we can find you a good 185. Give me a call.
SB

 

[Torch]

If your mission was to move 1000# of bulky cargo to a 600'+ strip and do it fast......my Cessna would spank your Cub every time. Every airplane has a niche. And conversely, every airplane has a weakness.

Some feds fly helicopters. No Cub's gonna outperform that! I want an
R-44 when I grow up.
SB

Stewatb,

Are those R44's sexy looking or what? One of the air taxi's out here on the west coast have a black one. They look like the cat's meow. Very Very nice. I would love one except I still enjoy flying out hunting.

 

[pzinck]

r 44

I hope they have more load than r 22s ,they would not give me lessons. I was too heavy (240) for summer lessons.I drove another 60 miles for lessons in an enstrom then bell.I quit after awhile,$ 250.00 an hour for piston, then $550.00 per hour for turbine.It was a dream 8 or so years ago. They were much less affected in wind than cub.Autorotations seemed easier than hovering.

 

[375handh]

I am about half way through my helicopter rating. It is expensive but way fun. I did a fair amount of research before starting and elected to learn in the Schweizer 300CBs (which is the trainer version of the old trainer, the Hughes 300C - FAA designation 269).

The Hughes 300C is a great little helicopter, with a three-blade, fully articulated rotor system. The main flight characteristics are almost identical to a stock Cub: cruises at about 95 MPH (although I think the book exaggerates a bit), has a useful load of about 950 lbs., will fly for about 4 hours (with auxillary tanks) and has a rate of climb of something like 750 fpm.

Helicopter seems a fair amount more difficult than the Super Cub, but then what I thought was difficult originally in the Cub now seems completely intuitive and the helicopter is much the same way. Except for the last 20 feet or so the autorotations in the Hughes are very comfortable. My understanding from talking with a number of instructors is that the R22 is much more demanding on a engine out.

 

[pzinck]

Dreamer

I sure am a dreamer, wanted to show up at a party just once in a chopper. I guess ive gotten older and tighter.367h have you checked on insurance.I was looking around for a used unit till got insurance quotes.My budget now or then wouldnt stomach it.Ive got a buddy who is loaded and he sold his,so i realized i couldnt afford it fi he couldnt.Times change,i guess im content.You know the old saying ? how to make a small fortune in aviation,? answer start with a large fortune.

 

[375handh]

Yes I have checked on insurance, since I actually purchased a 1981 Hughes 300C. A good ship out of Canada that just (two years later) got the FAA U.S. Airworthiness Certificate. Unrealistic to get insurance as a student pilot so I am training with Helicopter Adventures, Inc. (which my insurance guy really liked).

The insurance is very similar to getting insurance on a Cub float plane for pretty much the same reasons, best I can tell. My Cub on wheels runs about $1,700 per year for liability and $90,000 hull. My buddy's Cub on amphibs runs about $12,000 per year for liability and hull. The 300C would run about the same for both liability and hull. In both cases the wild increase in the premium seems to be the result of the hull expense. After talking to several insurance people, the theory goes like this: with a float plane, if you crash you either crash in fresh water or salt water. If you crash in fresh water, the plane is probably totaled. If you crash in salt water the plane is definitely totaled. In a helicopter, the most common crash is a "hard landing". Most of the time everyone lives, but in a hard landing, the main rotor blades flex down and chop off the tail boom. So in almost any helicopter "incident" you destroy the main rotor blades, the tail boom and drive shaft, the tail rotor, the main drive shaft, the main transmission and the engine; i.e. you pretty well destroyed the aircraft.

At least one insurance guy advised me to get both hull and liability the first year and then consider dropping hull.