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Un-drooping the droop tips

sj

sj

Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
The previous owner of my plane had droop tips installed and I would like to get rid of them. What I am wondering is, how big a job is this? Did they actually cut off the wing bow to install the droops?

Here is a picture of the type of droops I have:


Any advice would be appreciated...

sj
 
Steve,
Cajun Joe removed the droop tips from his wings. He can tell you how it is done. However, there is probably a safer and less expensive way to do it.
 
wing tips

Steve, Im going to rebuild my wings and want to install new wing tips as well. What is it you dont like about the droop tips?
 
Thanks for the info, guys.

In all of the different planes I have flown, I don't feel like they add that much if anything, and they do have an effect on visibility. Plus, I like the good ol' rounded wing look. I don't think you can improve too much on that original wing.

However, the budget says I will probably be droopy for some time to come.

sj
 
SJ changing your wings back to stock would be A BIG PROJECT. You have the extended ailerons so it is not a simple matter of removing the wing tips and going back to the tip bow. I would bet that the spars are full length without the cut outs at the tips for the bows. If you want the stock wings it would be just as cheap to order a set of Dakota wings have them covered and installed and sell your wings you currently have. If you really want the droops gone then I second what Gunny said about Dakotas tips.

Matt
 
Thanks Matt. The droops were done as an add on, not at the cub factory if that makes a difference.

sj
 
Then it isn't quite so bad but you still have a project. Being a 2000 model I just figured it came from the factory that way.

Matt
 
Steve, I am going through this exact situation right now... I like the droops, they are just "well worn" and was looking into other options. If yours are Plane Boosters like mine ( I believe they are) then the scenario TJ describes IS the case... and it is not a good one. When you try to bend the spar caps back together they will most likely break, as they were already bent twice. Once squeezed together to form the stock wing , and once to open them up to extend the wing for the droops.

I called Dakota and with a deviation on the STC you could unscrew your tips and slide thiers right on to your existing wood tip rib. I decided I really wanted to go this route....my budget decided differently :cry: If you decide to go this route, drop me a line I still would like to do something with my "well worn" tips! 8)

..... Just snapped to the "extended aileron" part....cost effectiveness of going back to round is really not looking good now...
 
Dead stick water landings?

Steve,
Do you normally make water landings deadstick? Or, did you just shut down your engine to get this photo right?

Mike
 
Removing Droop Tips

Removing Drooped tips: I removed a set from a pair of wings I had. If the original flap and aileron hinges are in the correct position then it's not such a big job. If they have been moved to accommodate longer ailerons and flaps then it's cheaper to find some numb nuts that likes modified wings and sell them.

If the mod was done by just adding a third flap hing and a fourth aileron hinge it can be done without totally recovering the wings. The top and bottom spar caps will bend back into position without cracking if you do it right. Use a plumbers torch to apply heat to the area of the bend while applying pressure with a leather gloved hand. After a minute of heating the cap will easily bend back into the original position. The bow, two ribs, brackets etc. will run you about $200.00 per side. You can split the fabric and roll it back to do the work then stretch it over the bow and tighten it again if it is Ceconite 101. The flaps and ailerons can be made stock again for about $400.00 each by Airframes Inc. Been there done that. I will never get involved in another modified wing Cub!!! Crash
 
The extended wing I don't mind so much, but the droopers....

sj
 
Tips

The best modified Cub wing tips going (as far as light weight and looks) ar the Dakota Cub wing tips. The very best is STOCK! Crash
 
Yeah but you've got 3ft of wing on a stock wing (18in on both sides) that generates virtually no lift. I would think Dakota's extended wing (no slots) would be an improvement over the stock in that respect at least.
 
Thick something?

Hey Gunny. You have to remember that the air is thicker up where Crash is. He doesn't need as much wing as we do. :D :D Jerry.
 
Jerry - You are right. It was presumptious of me to overlook relative air molecule density by geographic location during my hasty assessment of lift generation in stock versus extended wings. I'm on my knees in church doing pennance as we speak. :D
 
Modified Wings

Just my experience. I've never seen a place I wanted to go that a modified wing would have made a difference. I flew a modified wing (extended wing, flaps, ailerons and droop tips) for 11 years and can say from experience that in certain conditions (Alaska Peninsula winds) I wished they were stock. When I crash, I can call back to town and get a replacement wing, you can't. I had a fly off with another PA-18-160 with the same engine and prop but he had stock wings, I had modified. NO DIFFERENCE in performance. You can have em! Crash
 
I think I heard that before.

Hi Crash. Yes, I think you may have mentioned that once before. I mentioned it as humour but in reality having been in both places there is a heck of a difference between the air at Anchorage and Yakima. Even if the temperatures are about the same. Take Care. Jerry. :)
 
I had modified. NO DIFFERENCE in performance
Click to expand...

A friend of mine has long wings and we we take off above 6000 msl he always beats me off the ground. Seems like at 3500 we are about the same taking off.
 
Wings

Jerry: I knew you couldn't resist the "Numb Nuts" comment. I always get a rise from you on this topic. This was not really pointed at you. But if the shoe fits.....Just kidding :lol:

Kase: Yes we did the testing at around sea level. If it was the choice between "butchering up the wings" or installing a 180hp engine to get extra performance at 5,000 feet, I'd take the extra 20 hp every time.

Long flaps add lift but this is mostly canceled out by the additional drag they add during take off (my experience and opinion). A Cub that floats and floats is great on calm days but a real pain on windy days. I like my plane to perform "well" at both ends of the spectrum. Not great at one end and poor at the other. This is why I prefer stock wings. !0,000 Cubs couldn't be wrong. Crash
 
Ruidoso Ron said:
Steve,
Cajun Joe removed the droop tips from his wings. He can tell you how it is done. However, there is probably a safer and less expensive way to do it.
Click to expand...
Steve,
Ron is correct as employing his STC I simply ran the suck tips through a narrow arroyo and brushed them off. After that, replacing the wings was a no brainer.
Ron also has a new STC on the throttle mod which has given him an extra 23 HP and 16mph cruise speed. Check with him but it involves setting the throttle cable a certain way (devised by Boz) which utilizes the final 9/16 inch of carb throttle arm travel.
Bob, Paul and Scot I'm sure will attest to this speed increase.
 
Steve, don't know if it matters to you, but you will lose some yaw axis stability when you lose the droop tips, as they act as vertical stabilizers to some extent. Probably more noticable on floats. Also, you will get more of the "drop" when slowing for touchdown, as air suddenly spills from under the rounded wings out the tips. I like the rounded wings, but I think they would benefit greatly from a fence on the underside, just outboard of the aileron.
I intend to build some and try it, if I could just get my engine cool....
Also more ouchies, as if the aileron horn wasn't bad enough......
 
Hi Flabob,
At the risk of revealing a flaw in my character I have to be serious for a moment. I must say that I had the same tips Steve has on a very similar Cub from CC. The only difference I found and I'm not kidding but I am really serious, I promise, is that the droop tips suck.
And Steve is right. You have to constantly lift the wing to see your wingman.
The bit about longitudinal stability sounds plausible but I have flown 9MP with and without floats for long hours with only a tap on the rudder every now and then with the round bow tips. That's pretty stable.
That plain old Cub is just a hell of an airplane. No Kidding.
 
Re: Thick something?

Jerry Burr said:
Hey Gunny. You have to remember that the air is thicker up where Crash is. He doesn't need as much wing as we do. :D :D Jerry.
Click to expand...

Ya, the air is different up here. It's usually moving straight ACROSS the runway at a high rate of speed. Unlike your lower 48 air that always stands still on your 4,000' "Bush"strips, allowing you to deploy your "flaperons" and land in front of the Country Club at 20 mph. For once we can agree on something. Crash
 
Crash, Come to Texas some time and we will show you Murph's Country Club estate and the wind that blows across it. Some of the mesquite trees know SCs intimately.

Sometimes there is too much air in the head of the pilot at the controls. :lol:
 
Ho Ho Ha Ha.

Hey Crash. I agree with you most of the time, in that you are a very funny guy. But it seems that I always have to correct your oversights. The reason that there are so many (Top Cub) droop aileron kits laying in the back rooms instead of on airplanes is that the pilots were not able to de-select them in flight if needed. We don't have that problem. And I agree with you it's good to be able to land (fast) sometimes. You should also watch closer how any 0's you adddd to things. The runway length has two too many 0's. I'll see if I can find and convert a analog video that I have showing Denny taking off from my runway. My runway is one ended and is 600 by 70 feet long. He only uses half of it. That is he takes off across it at the half way point. And only uses half of the width. Yes I know it's a little long, but he was carrying some steel for his drilling operation in the islands. So that's how we handle crosswinds around here. If at all possible we try and land into the wind, If trees prevent this we use the trees for protection from the wind. This is all very basic stuff and I'm sure you remember it all now. Thanks for the laughs. :lol: Jerry.
 
Denny Martel

Hi Crash. I think there are pictures posted of Denny's Cub on other threads. The wings have A.Dodge tanks. Stock span flaps with the chord increased 4". The ails have the standard 28" extension with the 4" chord increase. The ailerons also have spades inner and outer with the CC droop system. Demer full droop tips. And a 5 to 3 leading edge auto adjust slat. It also has Micro VG's tucked tight into the slat exit point. Wayne Mackey was the main metal man for the wings. He can be contacted at Stolmaster@earthlink.net You might note at this point that the only items that add static weight are the tanks and the spades. :) Jerry.
 
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