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Tundra tires or skis?

For you guys that have never spent time flying on the prairie there is always some place to land your tail dragger. Like S2D said our winters regarding snowfall are like they were 20 years ago and earlier. We got 2" of snow last night and by 1:00 pm today the southern exposures were dry. There is a place for skis down in the lower 48 and it really depends on your location. So spend your money wisely so you can burn more av gas and know your limitations
 
I just put a pair of 31's on my SC over the weekend and I am now told that I need to keep a corrected weight and balance sheet in the plane along with a form 337. Not sure what a 337 is. Can anyone give me a bit of advice on this? Muchos gracias.
 
Is you cub experimental? Where did you get the tires? You should have a weight/balance sheet with your plane. How long have you owned the cub?
 
Here's some honest advice. Buy what you need. If you need to operate on snow and you decide to use tires it is only a matter of time until you wreck your plane. If you need Bushwheels for summer ops it will be only a matter of time before you wreck your plane on small tires. You can choose to operate appropriately with whatever gear you're equipped with. My advice? Do that. When it's time to expand your ops pick what gear you need to allow you to do what's most important to you. It really is that simple.

Stewart

From what I've seen, if you need bushwheels, then it's only a matter of time before you end up upside down. :lol:
 
Is you cub experimental? Where did you get the tires? You should have a weight/balance sheet with your plane. How long have you owned the cub?

My SC is not an experimental and I picked it up about 5 months ago. Been grinnin ever since. Bought the tires from a buddy who bought them new and he never used them. I called ABW, great to work with, and they sent me the STC. (Damn they make the plane look good.) My A&P and I have recomputed the weight and balance and I have a copy in the plane.....but now he is asking for $200 to give me a 337. Mainly just curious about the 337 form.
 
I'm new to the whole Ski Flying thing, have no experience, and I have a general question to all - What is everyone's opinion of Trick Air Ski's? - limitations of wheel penetration ski's vs. straight ski's.
 
Wingman,

The Form 337 is an FAA form which a mechanic submits to the FAA and enters in your maintenance logs to document a major alteration, such as installing those tires. If you installed the tires yourself, they're not legal. The mechanic has to bless them. I presume the $200 is for his time computing a new W/B and doing the paperwork.....

Schuler,

Do a search....LOTS of information on wheel penetration skis on here.

MTV
 
My SC is not an experimental and I picked it up about 5 months ago. Been grinnin ever since. Bought the tires from a buddy who bought them new and he never used them. I called ABW, great to work with, and they sent me the STC. (Damn they make the plane look good.) My A&P and I have recomputed the weight and balance and I have a copy in the plane.....but now he is asking for $200 to give me a 337. Mainly just curious about the 337 form.


The 337 is to send to the FAA so the STC get added to your aircraft info, you need it to be legit...
 
Hi all,

I have a >>very<< limited budget, and can afford to buy EITHER skis or bushwheels - AK bushwheels, 31". Since I don't expect to be landing on snow the rest of the year, I was wondering if I spent my money on bushwheels, can I land on snow with those? I understand, in my limited experience on snow, that if it's deep you're in trouble in either case, so if you land on harder stuff, it shouldn't make a difference - right?

Thanks,
Gal Bar-or, Wilson, Wyoming

So did you make a decision?
 
buried_in_the_snow.jpg


too much snow for 31's...
 
There is some bad advice at the beginning of this thread. If you land on tires in crusty snow, it will be your last for a while. By the sound of your question...you really need ski instruction, regardless of your pilot's license. Don't mess around, go with a good instructor,and yes they can teach anyone on this thread something.
 
There is some bad advice at the beginning of this thread. If you land on tires in crusty snow, it will be your last for a while. By the sound of your question...you really need ski instruction, regardless of your pilot's license. Don't mess around, go with a good instructor,and yes they can teach anyone on this thread something.

Skis would be pretty worthless in most of Wyoming. It doesn't get much snow and what snow there is blows away in the wind. There are many open spots to land on with Bushwheels. Landing off airport in snow of unknown depth and hardness is asking for it. What's there to know about ski flying other than you don't have brakes and there are lots of ways to get yourself stuck?:-)
 
Skis would be pretty worthless in most of Wyoming. It doesn't get much snow and what snow there is blows away in the wind. There are many open spots to land on with Bushwheels. Landing off airport in snow of unknown depth and hardness is asking for it. What's there to know about ski flying other than you don't have brakes and there are lots of ways to get yourself stuck?:-)
If you think that is all there is to know about ski flying...you will eventually get bit, or maybe you are just saying that, either way, ski flyin is great, it does not take but a skiff of snow to land on it( old bush pilots used to use them on mud flats by the way). Anyway becareful, there is a lot of experience to be gained from ski flying, just because it is white doesn't mean you can takeoff/land there. And vice versa for tires.
 
....I'm sure 'ty was summarizing in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

...........or....eventually he will get bit.

.....heck, if you fly skis, eventually you WILL get stuck or need help turning, even if you're lucky enough to not bend an a/c.

Merry Christmas Y'all!
 
I'm am still learning (wheels and skis) like any pilot should be. :smile: Maybe I'll put the skis on the pa-12 next week the snow has finally come.

Merry Christmas.
 
Hydraulic wheel skis are high on my list of favorite mods. It's almost time for me to go moose hunting in the snow. All this good weather and golf is nice but it isn't everything. ;-)

Merry Christmas, all.

Stewart
 
You know, it's funny about this forum - there are those that can answer a question straight, and those that think that every question is a soap box from where they can pontificate... it's near impossible to ask a question here without the latter chiming in with warnings and doomsday scenarios. We all have to learn sometime, and asking questions is the only way other than trying it out for yourself. Why not just answer the question asked, or give information intended to teach and not chide? if you are a great pilot, teach us what you know... give some examples of your experience, share some useful information. Don't just tell us how dangerous it is, tell us why, and what you would do differently...
 
Bought some 31s. Will have them in January. I don't have a ski instructor around here, and I don't know where to land with skis anyway, but I do have plenty of places I can land with 31" tires... I'll stay off the snow for the meanwhile, and if I can afford skis next year and can find some place to land, well, then there's the answer to that...
 
You had asked a very broad question and received lots of subjective answers. That's what forums are about. Lots of guys bring different perspectives, locales, and experiences to one table and toss it out for you to digest. No answer is absolutely right, no answer is absolutely wrong. Every reply is valuable. Maybe not to you, but to someone. Pretty cool, huh?
 
I beg to differ. There are plenty of replies that imply that if those asking "knew better" they would not have asked. I'm specifically reacting to #26:
"...a person who would ask the initial question asked in this thread is not the person who should be evaluating whether a snowy LZ is safe for tires or not."

This is not helpful. I'd have loved to hear something more like: soft snow or snow that's wind blown and solid on top but soft and deep below will halt your aircraft and cause you to nose over. If you don't know for sure that the snow is solid and can take the full weight of the aircraft, don't land on it without skis.

(not sure if that's really true) - but anyway, that's what I mean about being useful - I'm starving for information and would love to hear real data.
 
Bought some 31s. Will have them in January. I don't have a ski instructor around here, and I don't know where to land with skis anyway, but I do have plenty of places I can land with 31" tires... I'll stay off the snow for the meanwhile, and if I can afford skis next year and can find some place to land, well, then there's the answer to that...


Barorg,
what is your N # ? We want to track your progress now that you decided to use the bushwheels first ! 8)


Like any question posted on a forum, its hard to give an answer without all the details. You could have saved a lot of time just telling us at first, that you don't have anyplace to land on skis, and will ony be landing where there is no snow. We might have just told you to leave it on little tires. If you don't have anyplace to land on skis in the winter, you probably won't have anyplace where you'll need bushwheels in the summer.
 
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Seriously? you want to track my N# to see if I crash? that's so nice of you...

I didn't say I don't have anywhere to land on skis - I live in wyoming on the border of idaho - there's plenty of room around here, but to my knowledge, no dedicated strips - I would have to take a chance and land out somewhere no one has tried before, and I'm not too keen on doing that. At best, I'd have to stomp out a runway, at worst, I'd end up upside down in some farmer's field... not my ideal learning scenario. I have lots of locations I can land on in summer, when I can see what I'm landing on - and I do land out all the time. It's different in winter though - with no experience, I have no idea what's under the snow, what quality the snow is, and I'm trying to learn how to judge that - sounds like the way to do it is to go someplace where others have landed first and get experience judging snow visually - like anything else.

Anyway, thanks for the caring message - and I'd love to have you stalking my N#... ;)
 
I beg to differ. There are plenty of replies that imply that if those asking "knew better" they would not have asked. I'm specifically reacting to #26:
"...a person who would ask the initial question asked in this thread is not the person who should be evaluating whether a snowy LZ is safe for tires or not."

This is not helpful.

so you were more asking for the high school buddy's type affirmation of your wheel plan?

the
Oh ya dude thats a great idea, and save some money...

that leads to

Oh sorry dude, to bad you wrecked your plane, didn't think you'd do that...


PS... Merry Christmas ALL!!!!!!!!!!

.
 
No, I'm asking for actual information, not affirmation or denial of an idea. Not sure why it's so hard to get see the difference...
 
Regarding your post (#49): Point taken, thank you.

And....That curt answer was not for you, it was for those who would give you advice. Also, to all, sorry for the short version of my answer. That is all it was, the short version.

Here's a bit more.

If you know about snow, then you'll know it is not impossible, but it is very difficult to guess snow depth, crust, colation, density, texture, etc., etc. ad nauseum...............while looking at it....on the ground.............and even more difficult from the air. How does one describe it over the internet and safely advise what is 'good' snow for landing on 31's, or 'bad' snow for 31's?

By conservatively advising you, Barong, to shuck some bills for skis, any skis!!!!

The whole reason for my short and curt answer was to hope for safe, conservative advice would be offered and that you, Barong, would stay safe through that advice.

...my apologies.

DAVE
 
Apologies not necessary by any means, but the long answer does indeed help shed light on a subject that at once is obvious and not so obvious. One story I keep hearing is that when you have skis, you can get just as stuck in the snow - if it's deeper than you thought, you put down on it - won't you get stuck just as well?
 
If we get sum snow that will stick around I'll be put my new to me 1958 landis 2000 skis on. I have went through them from top to bottom (wider)Piper 6974B Skis 008.webpPiper 6974B Skis 016.webp003.webp
 

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Baorg

I think that what many of the replies are trying to say is this.

Rmember that bushwheels aren't skis. Ski flying combines a number of the skills acquired in flying wheels and floats. While it opens up a tremendous amount of opportunity for new adventures it also presents many hazards i.e snow depth, overflow, drifts, bare patches, wind polished ice, stumps, logs, ledges, ice shelves.... the list just goes on and on. Let your inner voice be your guide, if it doesn't feel right you aren't ready for it. That goes for whatever landing gear you are on. That little voice can save you thousands of dollars. Always be prepared to remain overnight and don't be surprised when you get stuck. With the adventure and fun comes some work....

Be safe and merry christmas
 
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