TSO Com?

[frequent_flyer]

The filter still lets the difference frequency in.

The stub was intended to attenuate the UHF ATC frequency and bench tests showed it did that quite well. It is not possible for the stub to attenuate the difference frequency. If the difference frequency is actually being radiated from the ATC antenna site it can only be fixed there.

 

[hotrod180]

....Another topic - I am setting my personal Cub up for a GTR-200.....
I love the SL-40 with the PM-501, but am simplifying in preparation for adding the GTR, which needs no external intercom.

Isn't the GTR200 the same model radio you've had all the trouble with, resulting in 5 pages of discussion here?
Hmmm....isn't there an expression about that--
something along the lines of doing the same thing over but expecting different results?
Are you switching radios just because of the GTR's built-in intercom?
I would probably think about just sticking with the SL40 & separate intercom if it worked well.
You know, the old "if it aint broke, don't fix it" thing.

 

[wireweinie]

Even if you go with the '200, my offer to fab the harness still stands.

Web

 

[bob turner]

Thanks.
The SL-40 seems to be a better radio, but the features of the GTR-200 outweigh it by a big bunch.

The SL-40 uses less battery power, and has none of the interference problems I describe. But in the J3, which is flown from either seat, its display is inadequate and its memory access is the worst I have yet encountered.

The GTR can be seen and operated from either seat. It has stunning display and memory setups. And its intercom is the best for open cockpit that I have ever tried.

Balance that out against this interference problem, and the verdict is GTR-200. I have used a lot of comm radios, and for Cubs and Stearmans, this one is the best. If they changed the squelch range, it would be even better. Sure, it sucks batteries down, but have you seen what is happening with batteries?

I don't make a living installing avionics, but I have done King, Narco, Edo-Aire, and these two, along with simple intercoms. I can do the GTR harness while the Greek cooks dinner and the News Hour plays. It is that simple.

 

[wireweinie]

Just for others information; if you need to operate one radio from two seats, look at the Trig TRY91 as it can be installed with two separate control heads. This means front seat/back seat or even two separate cockpits can control a single radio.

Web

 

[yellowbird69]

Bob---what battery are u using with GTR-200 ?---- I want to install it in my J-3 C-90-8 (NO generator)---Odessey PC-680 is ????---maybe a 10 AMP lithium ???Capt Cub---

 

[bob turner]

I have for decades used 7 Ah gel cells, and before that motorcycle batteries. One gel cell is good for five hours with the SL-40, but only one hour feeding the GTR. We graduated to 24 volts using two in series and get 12 tach hours in the busy pattern.

Right now the Cubs with GTRs are using the EarthX ETX-16C, and we are watching the timing - but I hooked both up so I can check volts on the preflight (or at any time) and can select an alternate battery in flight.

We are using the Odyssey PC-545 for the starter, and as a switchable backup for the GTR. Garmin engineers insist that the GTR is current-driven, but our experience is that it goes into “low power” mode around 12.4 Volts, when we still have enough oomph for maybe six more starts.

A brand new 545 gives us 75 starts; after several cycles it drops to 60. That’s usually 3 months!

 

[bob turner]

Today I got SoCal interference in a KX-155 King radio. Since I was the only one in the pattern, I mentioned it to our friendly local controller. He said "yeah, we get SoCal interference, but it hasn't been as bad lately."

The Garmin is more susceptible, but now I realize that others have had this problem, and are just not as ornery as am I.

 

[bob turner]

Difficult to believe it has been over a year since I updated. My FSDO still maintains that I cannot install these radios, and as recent as September 2022 said “You cannot install an experimental radio in a certificated aircraft.”

They still have not found the regulation, so I still have not received a written notification. In response to a PM, I typed this:

Hey John

The 200B is “PMA” which means little, except that it probably keeps the inspectors at bay.

I am putting this note in all aircraft with the 200:

Garmin GTR-200 Com installed per Garmin GTR-200/200B Installation Manual.
This unit meets RTCA DO186B, thus it meets TSO requirements. Regulations for similar equipment (transponders) require only that the equipment meet TSO requirements. See 14 CFR 91.215 and Order 8300.16A CHG 1 App. 1.10.

This installation is a minor alteration, requiring only acceptable data. See 14 CFR 1 and 43 App A. See also AC 20.67B.

And then I sign it with my A&P #.

I will stand before an administrative law judge and defend that, if they ever attempt to violate me. I am quite confident I have the law on my side.

 

[wireweinie]

Not trying to cause a fight, but why did you ask the FSDO? If your IA is OK with the radio during annuals, then install it and move on.

I'll pitch in on bail money, if you need it.:lol:

Web

 

[bob turner]

I was trying to get them to move an interfering frequency. I did not realize that it would cause a group of six feds to descend upon my hangar. One of the six has a “reputation.” The frequency allocation guy did not understand the basics of frequency mixing. We still hear clearances to NKX and CRQ, crystal-clear. We are smart enough to ignore them.

If you hear a transmission on 132.2 on a radio tuned to 125.7 there is a frequency allocation problem.

I was not pointing out my radio so they could examine the installation. I will never again try to enlist the aid of FAA personnel to fix a problem like this.

The others were just nice guys who accepted federal employment. It is a cushy job now- they work from home. I doubt we will see them at the airport. Too bad; they are the kind of guys who could help.

 

[wireweinie]

Remember that one of that short list of world's biggest lies is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

Web

 

[dgapilot]

Without going through all the posts, if your FAA guy gives you any more grief about TSO, just remind him that all those KX170s, all those ARC328s, and most of the Narco Mark 12s are not TSO. If he wants to come after you, he better go after everyone that still has one of those radios still in their airplane!


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[bob turner]

Some feds are genuinely helpful. We have two or three that would have granted my field approvals instantly.

One ASI many years ago updated my CFI ticket after I inadvertently let it expire. The head of the maintenance group calls me "one of the good guys."

The current answer to the KX 170 and old Narco is that they were listed on the type certificate. I really don't think I need to worry, because they cannot find any guidance that contradicts what I list above. I am sure they tried, because for a month they kept visiting once or twice a week, and once stated I could be violated for each and every flight with the 200 installed. That was almost two years ago.

 

[dgapilot]

Some feds are genuinely helpful. We have two or three that would have granted my field approvals instantly.

One ASI many years ago updated my CFI ticket after I inadvertently let it expire. The head of the maintenance group calls me "one of the good guys."

The current answer to the KX 170 and old Narco is that they were listed on the type certificate. I really don't think I need to worry, because they cannot find any guidance that contradicts what I list above. I am sure they tried, because for a month they kept visiting once or twice a week, and once stated I could be violated for each and every flight with the 200 installed. That was almost two years ago.

But all that useful info that used to be on the TCDS is no longer there! That said, they may have been on the TCDS for the likes of Cherokees and 172s and the like, but we’re never on the TCDS for Stinsons, Howard’s, TriPacers, Pacers, or hundreds of other airplanes.

The current crop of ASIs would likely have no idea that avionics used to be on the TCDS as they stripped most of that off about 30 years ago.

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[akmarty]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5059582/faa-nominee-challenged-lack-aviation-safety-experience

Not much change to all the incompetence coming. Latest nominee for FAA head is just another puppet. Not a hint of airman in him.


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[JimParker256]

Heck, the FSDO guy I was directed to wasn't even aware that there was such a thing as "Experimental - Operating as Light Sport" (which is the airworthiness certificate I have). Even after I showed him in the regulations, and pointed out that my airplane was licensed during "grandfather clause" period, he still didn't understand, and had to "call headquarters" in DC for clarification. He wanted me to fly a 40-hour Phase I test flight period for replacing the propeller. When I pointed out that the original Phase I period was only 10 hours (per both the regulation and per the airworthiness certificate's "Operating Limitations"), he once again had to "call HQ" for clarification. It took over 18 months to get it straightened out.

In hindsight, I should never have even called the FSDO about swapping propellers. I should have just made the change, put it back into Phase 1 for 10 hours, and been done with it. I only called because my local DAR said they would only require 5 hours in Phase I for the new prop. I wish! Now, after 18 months of not being able to fly the airplane, I've still got a 10-hour Phase I to fly off... Ridiculous...

And don't even get me started on the whole "LODA" for receiving flight instruction in my E-LSA... After jumping through the hoops, and getting the paperwork done so I could get my BFR in my own airplane, I no longer can, because I've got a 10-hour Phase I to fly off before I can fly with anyone else. I'm going to have to rent a C-172 to get a BFR - and it's been 45 years since I've flown a C-172 - in order to legally fly off the 10-hour Phase I... Argh!