Thinking about building

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

Sorry if this is the wrong sections for this. Ive been day dreaming for about a month now on building a PA18 and I need some advice. I have built a few cars in my life all with tube chassis or roll cages but never a plane. I have combed through the supercubproject page daily going over plans and figuring things out so that I don't get too over my head. there are areas I see ill need lots of advice on (this forum and my local EAA) mainly the wings. My questions more are on the side of do I need airplane building experience to do a PA18 from scratch? What should I study up on? Are the northland files just supercubproject files? And I know my wife has laughingly told me I'm crazy for thinking about doing this but from people who have done this.......Have I lost my mind? thanks for the advice.

 

[JWE]

If I were you I'd buy a kit, preferably a quick build kit, and stick to the plans.

 

[Fortysix12]

What is the motivating factor to build from scratch. It is a long road if even if you work at it at a steady pace. The drawings combined with Christian's web site Supercubproject.com is a must Printing the parts manual as well as printing the 1988 version is very helpful. Understanding how the parts book and part numbers and part index relate is a big help. Understanding part number assy. is a must specifcally that an assy might be a group of parts all with different part numbers. An example is Understanding that there is a bushing print that has 150 different parts all with the same first number but with a different 2 digit ID number. Learning your way around the prints takes time, but there are many avenues to find what you might be looking for or the part you want to build. I personally think the parts book is key, its the big picture broken down in a logical order or groups. The good news is you can buy almost any part you don't want to build. Good Luck. I would advise you to chose your battle on what you want to build Lots of videos out there. Check out Christian Sturm web site. It will be a big help.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Not trying to discourage scratch building but…there are numerous kits out there with lots of options to modify to suit your needs. I opted to scratch build because I couldn’t find the options I wanted with the kits available at that time. I also thought it wouldn’t take ME nearly as long as it takes most folks to scratch build. That assumption was based on the amount of time I could devote to the project, which was significant. So 3000 hours into it with many more to go it’s difficult to maintain enthusiasm. So, if you decide to scratch build be prepared for it to take twice (or more) the time you planed. If your spouse isn’t on board that could be a problem, it’s a huge time suck. I’m out in my shop a good part of every day. My wife isn’t into airplanes but she’s ok with it because she knows where to find me. Shop is in the back yard. Also, don’t think you’re going to save money scratch building. You may be able to but I think I could have purchased a kit for less than I’ve spent so far. Shipping costs on all the little stuff is a real budget buster.

If it’s your dream to scratch build, go for it…EYES WIDE OPEN (pocketbook too).

Mr. Ed

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

What is the motivating factor to build from scratch. It is a long road if even if you work at it at a steady pace. The drawings combined with Christian's web site Supercubproject.com is a must Printing the parts manual as well as printing the 1988 version is very helpful. Understanding how the parts book and part numbers and part index relate is a big help. Understanding part number assy. is a must specifcally that an assy might be a group of parts all with different part numbers. An example is Understanding that there is a bushing print that has 150 different parts all with the same first number but with a different 2 digit ID number. Learning your way around the prints takes time, but there are many avenues to find what you might be looking for or the part you want to build. I personally think the parts book is key, its the big picture broken down in a logical order or groups. The good news is you can buy almost any part you don't want to build. Good Luck. I would advise you to chose your battle on what you want to build Lots of videos out there. Check out Christian Sturm web site. It will be a big help.

I guess the motivation is the wanting to build. Ive alway enjoyed the idea of building something rather than buying it. I have spent many hours already looking at the drawing and figuring how how to interpret them. I know this will be a long process and a expensive one as well.

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

Not trying to discourage scratch building but…there are numerous kits out there with lots of options to modify to suit your needs. I opted to scratch build because I couldn’t find the options I wanted with the kits available at that time. I also thought it wouldn’t take ME nearly as long as it takes most folks to scratch build. That assumption was based on the amount of time I could devote to the project, which was significant. So 3000 hours into it with many more to go it’s difficult to maintain enthusiasm. So, if you decide to scratch build be prepared for it to take twice (or more) the time you planed. If your spouse isn’t on board that could be a problem, it’s a huge time suck. I’m out in my shop a good part of every day. My wife isn’t into airplanes but she’s ok with it because she knows where to find me. Shop is in the back yard. Also, don’t think you’re going to save money scratch building. You may be able to but I think I could have purchased a kit for less than I’ve spent so far. Shipping costs on all the little stuff is a real budget buster.

If it’s your dream to scratch build, go for it…EYES WIDE OPEN (pocketbook too).

Mr. Ed

This is why I wrote the questions. Im looking for feed back from the people who have or are in there middle of building a SC so that I can figure if its really something I can and want to tackle. I have looked at a few kits, not falling in love with any of them or the lead times on some. its not that my wife isn't on board she more looks at the drawing I have been staring at and is lost in the lines, so she's more on the side on "I can't believe you can look at that and want to build".

 

[BC12D-4-85]

The challenge may be determining "lines or points of reference" without a structure that's a proven reference to assist. Called "jigs, forms" or whatever. If you can build an airplane with just prints or references in two or three dimensions with normal tolerances that's exemplary. And when done if it disappoints who to blame? But, I say do it and periodically report back how it evolved. Obviously someone had to do just that during the beginning of aircraft design. But they were a different generation and given to experiment. Later, flight testing was the judge of their work.

Gary

 

[aflyer]

It is hard to get a handle on just how much work it is to build an airplane from scratch. There are so many little, unanticipated things to design and make, and if you haven't done it before, you will do many of them at least twice. I started a scratch build once (a Mullicoupe) and sold it thinking I would never be done.
I have built two airplanes now from kits and greatly enjoyed it. There are plenty of opportunities to make little mods to make it your own.
I seem to have no lack of pride in the result, even though I took an easier path.

John

 

[Steve Pierce]

If I were going to build from scratch I would use Christians website and download the L21 drawings he has, also buy the Northland CD here and buy the Short Wing Piper Club Vagabond CD https://shortwingpiperclub.org/swpc-store/reference-books-cds/vagabond-drawings-vol-1-cd/ since it has all the small part drawings common to all the rag and tube Pipers. Be handy to have a Super Cub close by to look at as well to shed some light on the drawings.
Here are some photo albums of rebuilding a couple of Super Cubs to get an idea what you are getting into with building from scratch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JpEzvEbAaX4uG4DU2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ptQXfna4fZUmqRXl2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fu4cKYK2yQclL1An2

 

[Fortysix12]

One other thought. Might consider purchasing a set of Plans from Wag Aero, say a Sportman 2+2 plans, a different airplane than a Super Cub but the plans will show how some of the basic wood jig layouts are done. Many identical to a super Cub. Go for it. Start off with a lower investment, assuming you are a gas or tig welder fabricate some parts like the complete tail feathers, relatively low investment if raw materials but will let you know what you are in for. Again, some parts just are not worth your time to fabricate, just buy them from many sources. Wag Aero, Alaska Airframes, Univair,, Javron just to name a few. Like someone mentioned, having a super cub near buy would be huge. Buying a building a project might also be considered, it would certainly give a deep in sight

Nice photo links Steve.

 

[1934A]

Where are you at in life? Retired? School age kids? This makes a HUGE difference. I have an ongoing project that i started 10 years ago. At that time, our kidd were little, i had the time to work in the shop 2-3 hours a night. Fast forward a few years, kids are in school, sports, and a bunch of other activities that pretty much take up any free time that i used to have. I used to enjoy the tedious little tasks, but anymore, it's hard to get motivated when progress is so hard to see. My advice is to buy the materials to buips rudder pedals, seat and seat base, and tailfeathers. Build those parts to start with, then make your decision on whether to proceed.

 

[aeroaddict]

I'm with 1934A, but would also add what is the end goal; flying or building?

I enjoy both but also wanted to fly soon. So I bought a kit, built it and now fly all the time. Even with a kit, it consumed a lot of time.

And I think you already answered your question:"I guess the motivation is the wanting to build. Ive alway enjoyed the idea of building something rather than buying it. I have spent many hours already looking at the drawing and figuring how how to interpret them. I know this will be a long process and a expensive one as well.".

 

[Farmer Hank]

I scratch built a Pitts in 14 months when I was in the Navy. Scratch built a Super Cub (basically from Wag-Aero plans) in the mid-eighties. Took seven years. Rebuilt a Travel Air in the nineties. Took ten years. Scratch built (with a contracted fuselage) a Jungmeister. Took eleven years. See a progression here? I now have all the tools and all the time, but I’ve learned a lot and my standards keep getting higher. I say just go for it! All the drawings are available, you can buy any part you can’t make yourself, and this community is here to help you achieve your dream.

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

First off thank you everyone for the responses. I didn't think when logged in I would see this many of you chiming in and I am so grateful for everyones advice. ill do my best to fill in where some of your have questions. First off to the ones who have done kits I don't want to come off like someone who is scratch building is better or anything like that. Anyone who puts a plane together from a kit a rebuild or builds from scratch are all the same to me, either way it isn't "easy". as for my skills and life. Im married 34yo no kids and planning to wait a little longer for them, I live in norther ID and there are a few SC at my local airport that ill try to befriend to look at as I build. I took welding in high school and never stopped, my "shop" is a woodworking/welding shop where I have a Tig ac/dc and a mig welder. I have welded Tig for the last 7 years. I want to build because I love building, my first car was a 4 year project and I just finished my last car taking me 6 years, so I in no way expecting this to be fast or cheaper because lets be honest building gives you more options to upgrade and who passes up a upgrade. I have been on Christians web site everyday looking at everything I can chasing down part numbers and figuring out how each part is joined and formed, been on there so much that I might have wore it out (its been down since yesterday). I love the Idea of using wag aero for the jig ideas. Thank you again for everyones help, ideas,support,and even the few who have said buy a kit, I value everyones opinion and it truly does help me figure out if this is for me.

 

[dteal]

What part of Northern Idaho? If you get time and can track him down, stop in to see Bob at the Tekoa Wa airport. He built my bushmaster clone, and has two others going now. He's built multiple SC's from kits and full resto's. He builds a lot of his own parts and has a wealth of knowledge on the little stuff that's mentioned above and often forgotten.

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

What part of Northern Idaho? If you get time and can track him down, stop in to see Bob at the Tekoa Wa airport. He built my bushmaster clone, and has two others going now. He's built multiple SC's from kits and full resto's. He builds a lot of his own parts and has a wealth of knowledge on the little stuff that's mentioned above and often forgotten.

Im in Coeur d'Alene, I will have to track him down. I know for a fact that if I do this project I will need help with stuff along the way.

 

[Sikorsky]

Can you? Yes, if you believe in yourself.
Should you? Don’t know.

I built a plans built Cub. First Cub I have ever built. Took 5 years. I’m not real smart. If I can do it so can you.

Zach

 

[Bill Rusk]

You are welcome to come up to Sandpoint sometime and visit. I have built two super cubs from kits. Weather permitting I would be happy to give you a ride.


Bill

 

[1934A]

Another option to consider is to have Javron build you a fuselage minus anything that can be added later. Build as many of the parts as possible, rudder pedals, door frames, tailfeathers, vertical stabilizer, seat and seat base, etc... You'd save a ton of time, but you'd still get plenty of building under your belt. If you LOVE building, and have the time to build from scratch, go for it! If you want to be flying in the next 5 years, look for options to shorten up the build time.

 

[Farmer Hank]

Forgive me, but I am excited for you. There is a wealth of talent near you, so be sure to get their input. I’m a little farther away, but I am about to finish new wings, and I’ve made the popular mods to the fuselage. No fabric yet, so I could show you what you could make for yourself and what you might need to buy, short of going the kit route.

 

[RVBottomly]

Have I lost my mind? thanks for the advice.

Yes. Nothing wrong with that, though! I have the scratch bug too.

I've been sort of offline past few months, mostly helping with my Mom who had a pelvic fracture. She's doing better now and I'm enjoying the cooler temperatures to get back to my project.

I'm scratch building a Wag 2+2, which is not much different from a Super Cub in the basics. I've used all the drawings that Steve Pierce mentioned. Fabricating is fun and frustrating, but for me it remains worth it after around 6 years of building.

I'm 2 hours south of you and would be happy to talk. I started by ordering tubes and making tail feathers. Then I ordered more tubes and welded the fuselage. One thing leads to another. Now working on wings. Spreading out the costs made it less painful. But I'm still looking for an engine.

In the process I did buy an antique flying airplane so I didn't have to wistfully look at the cubs flying overhead. That might have slowed down my pace a little, but I'm glad I did it to keep somewhat current.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Yes. Nothing wrong with that, though! I have the scratch bug too.

I've been sort of offline past few months, mostly helping with my Mom who had a pelvic fracture. She's doing better now and I'm enjoying the cooler temperatures to get back to my project.

I'm scratch building a Wag 2+2, which is not much different from a Super Cub in the basics. I've used all the drawings that Steve Pierce mentioned. Fabricating is fun and frustrating, but for me it remains worth it after around 6 years of building.

I'm 2 hours south of you and would be happy to talk. I started by ordering tubes and making tail feathers. Then I ordered more tubes and welded the fuselage. One thing leads to another. Now working on wings. Spreading out the costs made it less painful. But I'm still looking for an engine.

In the process I did buy an antique flying airplane so I didn't have to wistfully look at the cubs flying overhead. That might have slowed down my pace a little, but I'm glad I did it to keep somewhat current.

Was thinking about you when this post started and wondered where you had been

 

[DENNY]

A few other questions, are you currently a pilot? Have you ever flown in a Supercub? It is cheaper to buy a flying cub most any day of the week and you will most likely not get your money back if you decide to sell it even if it flys. DENNY

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

A few other questions, are you currently a pilot? Have you ever flown in a Supercub? It is cheaper to buy a flying cub most any day of the week and you will most likely not get your money back if you decide to sell it even if it flys. DENNY

Yes I am a instrument rated pilot with 300ish hours so I'm still green. As for flying a SC the only cub I have flown was a FX cub, I was in the rear and I didn't get to do much other than stalls and a few turns. As for money side of things there is no doubt I will lose money on the deal but that being said I don't have 150k in the bank however I can afford it if I spread it out over a few years. This is the same way I tackled my cars, I spent more money that I would have if I just bought one done but I could afford them in one shot, so I built got what I wanted and sold them at a loss. I don't expect this to be a quick or cheap endeavor. Slow is ok because as of right now a hanger is going to cost me more Than the airplane would and that only if you can find one. that's a whole other thing to deal with in the future.

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

Yes. Nothing wrong with that, though! I have the scratch bug too.

I've been sort of offline past few months, mostly helping with my Mom who had a pelvic fracture. She's doing better now and I'm enjoying the cooler temperatures to get back to my project.

I'm scratch building a Wag 2+2, which is not much different from a Super Cub in the basics. I've used all the drawings that Steve Pierce mentioned. Fabricating is fun and frustrating, but for me it remains worth it after around 6 years of building.

I'm 2 hours south of you and would be happy to talk. I started by ordering tubes and making tail feathers. Then I ordered more tubes and welded the fuselage. One thing leads to another. Now working on wings. Spreading out the costs made it less painful. But I'm still looking for an engine.

In the process I did buy an antique flying airplane so I didn't have to wistfully look at the cubs flying overhead. That might have slowed down my pace a little, but I'm glad I did it to keep somewhat current.

I would love to talk. Sounds like what I'm going to end up doing here. I rent a few different Airplanes here to get my flying fix.

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

You are welcome to come up to Sandpoint sometime and visit. I have built two super cubs from kits. Weather permitting I would be happy to give you a ride.


Bill

Bill I would love to drive up and check it out. Ill send you a PM soon. Thank you

 

[Fortysix12]

Sent you a private message

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

well after talking with the wife and some help from a few guys on here, I bought a project already underway. Many many many parts came with it. So now a week to figure out exactly what I bought (inventory) begins. Never been so excited while saying what have I done so many times.

 

[Speedo]

Keep us posted on your progress. It will be fun to watch!

 

[GoodAtDoingStuff]

well after a few hours measuring and double checking everything I have come to the conclusions that the fuselage is straight. how ever I have a few things that need to be addressed in my opinion but I'm looking for advice from people here as this is my first plane build.

1: the door frame is made of 2 pieces of angle welded to together and that doesn't seem right to me. secondly I
feel like it should be a full hinge rather than 3 little ones.
2: I need to clean up some welds around some brackets and pulleys
3: it seems as if the tail has been rebuilt, I'm not sure I like the u channel welded on like this. Im thinking of cutting it all off and rebuilding it what's your thoughts?