Them cornfounded 406 thingies

[NimpoCub]

I was readin' in the COPA paper that Canada seems ready to mandate the use of 406 ELTs no matter the cost or hassle factor to us GA types.

Apparently they have not allowed for the lack of similar mandate in the US, and that will make it illegal for US planes without a 406 gizmo to fly across Canuck airspace. Going to Ak? Heh.

How can they be so stupid? Oh yeah, politicians.

This just came in from one of the BC Floatplane directors...

>
> Transport Canada is drafting a new regulation that requires all aircraft in
> Canada (with some exceptions) to carry a device that will immediately
> upon a
> crash, provide notification of same. This regulation differs from that
> proposed by CARAC and was revised by CARC as the result of lobbying by
> DND
> and NSS. Part of the decision to change the CARAC approved version was
> based
> upon an estimate for supply and install that quoted a value less than
> quoted
> by Gordon. These estimates/quotes still are unconfirmed as only a few
> have
> been installed in GA aircraft and as the new draft regulation has not been
> approved for all of the required installation components. These
> components
> include a remote switch complete with indicating light, possibly an
> annunciator alarm that would alarm when the ELT is activated so that pilots
> would not walk away from an aircraft with a transmitting ELT, possibly a
> re-enforced mounting bracket to better survive a crash and a new antenna.
> This total system may also require an integrity test to confirm that all of
> the system is performing as designed. And, of course, the paperwork
> required
> by TC to install anything new in an aircraft.
>
> Chuck, in talking to my avionics shop, the price to purchase could be in the
> $1,200.00 range with the installation cost about the same (around
> $1,000.00). Then, the unit requires annual certification which I do not know
> much about.
>
> As I said above, all aircraft (with some exceptions) will require an
> immediate notification capability for SAR. There is, as far as I know, no
> exemptions to the regulation as is currently possible; ie: do not travel
> beyond 25 miles, placard for when the ELT is out for servicing. So this
> means that no aircraft flying will be without an ELT as there are no other
> forms of immediate notification of a crash currently available.
> Unfortunately all of the current problems with ELT's have not been
> addressed; ie: broken antenna, no G switch activation (all ELT's except
> helicopter ELT models have a 1 directional G switch), aircraft upside down
> or underwater and not allowing the ELT signal to reach the satellite.
> However, false alarms should be eliminated as the digital signal will
> contain the owner's information which will allow the JRCC to contact the
> owner for confirmation (of course, the owner must ensure that he has
> registered the ELT properly and updated this info as necessary). One of the
> benefits of the 406 ELT was that it would have an instant transmit function
> should it be activated during a crash. Unfortunately, the circuitry requires
> approx 20-50 seconds to process its data prior to transmitting the last
> signal.
>
> The 406 ELT will also include a reduced power output 121.5 signal which
> will
> allow homing of the ELT. The homing of the 406 digital signal will not be
> easy and there are very few cost effective 406 homers on the market. As
> the
> 406 ELT transmits for a half millisecond every 55 seconds, there is no
> continuous signal to home. And of course, 121.5 will no longer be received
> by satellites after Feb 2009. If the new regulation passes, there will be a
> grace period before all aircraft are required to be equipped with a 406 ELT
> as industry could not react fast enough to equip all aircraft in Canada. So
> during this time (possibly 2 years) there will be no 121.5 satellite
> receivers and there will be numerous aircraft still flying with only a 121.5
> MHz ELT on board. During this time, pilots may want to look to other 406
> ELD
> (Emergency Locator Device) that is not automatically activated upon a
> crash;
> SPOT is a good possibility.
>
*********(snip)****************

Taxation WITH representation ain't so hot either!!

 

[StewartB]

It's big country, rescue resources are fabulously expensive, and life is precious. Pony-up and be happy that some government regulations actually may affect YOUR well being. Besides, a search and rescue operation puts innocent guys at risk while they venture out looking for us. If a new ELT helps keep them safer while they're bucking the weather looking for me? It makes good sense. They have families, too.

Stewart

 

[7853H]

How about we allow the citizens to decide the type of ELT or safety measures they deem is in their best interest. The Gov. has no business in my day to day life decisions ................... Just how many people are saved with ELT's did it help Johns, Boggs, Begich, the pilot in Utah, the pilot in Oregon to name a few. Socialism is just great I think we need to be more like Russia where private flight and other freedoms are deemed unsafe.

 

[StewartB]

Interesting attitude. The "government" will be the ones coming to find you.

Besides, there's no requirement that I know of in the US that forces you to upgrade. You can keep your old 121.5 unit if you want. Nobody will be listening for it in the event that you need assistance, but that's your choice.

Here's a link to the AOPA position, which is similar to yours. It makes absolutely no sense. Congress requires you to carry an ELT. AOPA supports your choice to carry a useless one. American taxpayers will be expected to pay the bill for looking for you while we bitch about high taxes and inefficient use of public assets. Be sure to send some money to AOPA for their lobbying efforts. Go team!

Stewart

 

[Rob Murray]

406

Even though the satellites will be/ are programmed to look for 406 signals, for the average a/c joining a search and using an aviation radio, I believe 121.5 will still be needed.

 

[fobjob]

The 406 ELT's also have a lower power 121.5 beacon (25mw as opposed to the old beacon's 60-75mw)to alert overflying aircraft and aid ground parties to locate you....the more ELT's you have on board, the higher probability that one of them will work, when you need it...

 

[Roger Peterson]

Any idea of when the law will become effective. I already carry a PLB but without a g switch, this is just for my personal good. I think having the new equipment is better than a long term unplanned camping trip. I fly over a lot of country up there where there is no company except bears and moose.

 

[jay cross]

In 2009 the 121.5 frequency will be not monitored as an elt source. The 406 will be the standard. Although you will not be required to get a new one "yet",I think it is only a matter of time. Northern Lights Avionics did a present ion at the Anchorage IA seminar explaining the ins and outs. A new elt will be a minimum of approximately 1200 dollars. Every two years the battery will be around 450 dollars. More if remotely activated. Also your elt will be registered to you. For more money a gps capability is available. Makes one wonder if they won't embed the capability to actuate the device from afar. Be a great way of tracking individual aircraft. Of course we trust our government not to intrude on our privacy, right!

 

[tempdoug]

Where are our faithful Japaneese, Chineese or Mexicans so we can get these made at $10.00 a pop.

 

[StewartB]

$992.00 from Skygeek for the complete ELT/panel switch/antenna kit.

http://www.skygeek.com/455-6605.html

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Steve)]

Personally, I think if the governments believe that they would save so much time and money, if we had the fabulous "what if" 406 boxes, they would be farther ahead to furnish every registered airplane out there with one. Our government waste more money than that daily in Iraq.
I do not plan on being rescued by that resource alone anyway. If I have the misfortune of going down, and survive it, it will not be long before they will know where I am. If I do not survive it, I won't care. I just get kind of tired of being told what I have to have, no matter what it cost, for their benefit.

Steve

 

[fobjob]

Just a reminder, that if you have a new cell phone, that someone sitting at a desk anywhere in the world, can dial a bunch of numbers on his phone, and get a readout of your phone's GPS position. He can also turn on your phone's microphone to hear what is going on, even if you have turned your phone off....great for rescue, but will be abused beyond belief....
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Quantity vs. cost..... :roll:

 

[Tim]

Every time I turn around its another thousand dollars. I was gonna get a helmet, $1000, then I thought about a new head set, almost $1000, now a new ELT,$1000. I may have to get a job



Tim

 

[Roger Peterson]

I think the GPS phone deal is really great. Now someone can tell me where I am rather than where to go.

 

[fobjob]

You guys worry too much. By the end of this year, we won't have enough money for food, much less flying.....


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Think of all the money we'll save!!

 

[NimpoCub]

It's big country, rescue resources are fabulously expensive, and life is precious. Pony-up and be happy that some government regulations actually may affect YOUR well being.

Absolutely correct. I'm not whinin' ... the 406 thingie sounds like a better gizmo to me. That AirTek one for $990 you found makes it easier to swallow too. I like the manual switch & buzzer too.

My main thought when I posted this was that it sounds like you'll need one to cross the Canuck border. Won't that cramp Christina & friends' style when going to Ak?

And 'they' keep trying to legislate intelligence.

 

[NimpoCub]

Just a reminder, that if you have a new cell phone,

Hey guy... you must be from civilization.

 

[fobjob]

If that's what you call it.....

 

[mit greb]

Interesting attitude. The "government" will be the ones coming to find you.

Besides, there's no requirement that I know of in the US that forces you to upgrade. You can keep your old 121.5 unit if you want. Nobody will be listening for it in the event that you need assistance, but that's your choice.

Here's a link to the AOPA position, which is similar to yours. It makes absolutely no sense. Congress requires you to carry an ELT. AOPA supports your choice to carry a useless one. American taxpayers will be expected to pay the bill for looking for you while we bitch about high taxes and inefficient use of public assets. Be sure to send some money to AOPA for their lobbying efforts. Go team!

Stewart

Freedom; is not free, in more ways than one.

 

[fobjob]

121.5 will still be monitored by overflying commercial aircraft, as far as I know. We used to get quite a few reports that way....I integrated an ELT (121.5) receiver with our mountaintop CAP repeater once, but civilization has fallen yet again since I left....it would still let you find your buddies without the gummint's help....and we could always listen...????.

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...Why don't we??

 

[StewartB]

Check this out. 2 of 1000 hits on the current 121.5 system are actual emergencies. Not ELT or EPIRB distress signals, but total signals received from all sources, valid and invalid. That's a 99.8% false alarm rate. That's not a record to trust my life to. Certainly not when a better option exists. $990.00 for a better chance of surviving is an acceptable price. When I look at my family sitting in the plane with me? Not spending $990.00 is irresponsible. That's my subjective opinion.

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/

Stewart

 

[Nathan K. Hammond]

Of the 1000 hits; does that include me testing an ELT? Or do they only count the signals they track down?

nkh

 

[StewartB]

The stats I've seen don't differentiate the sources and I doubt they'd be able to separate them. It doesn't matter anyway. With the high likelihood of false signals not many people are going to take a signal too seriously. I know that's been the case when I've reported 121.5 signals in the past. Instead of assuming there's an emergency the authorities are conditioned to assume it's not.

Stewart

 

[Nathan K. Hammond]

And that leads me to wonder; Are we switching to 406 for the right reasons? I wont argue it's a better unit, with GPS locating and a data signal; but why are they mandating the change? Maybe that's been answered earlier and I'm just slow. But, we have to check a 121.5 ELT during routine maintenance, and I'm sure we'll do the same for a 406 unit. And when we test the new (406) unit, will that trip the satellite and start the phone calls? Now we have the same problem; _x_ number of false alarms each year, and responders become passive.

Please understand, I'm in no way trying to pick a fight with anyone. I'm just trying to understand if we're change over because somebody wants their job to be easier, or Manufactures have pressured higher-ups or ____________.

nkh

 

[StewartB]

Nathan,

Check out that site I linked. There's lots of info on it. I think the basic advantage of the 406 units is that they're designed to operate with satellites. There are both orbiting and geosynchronous satellites that see this particular frequency. The transmitters broadcast a registered signal so alarms can be traced to a specific user and attempts made to validate the emergency. It all makes sense in our technologically changing world. I can't think of any electronic equipment that I have that's based on 1970s technology other than my ELT. In fact, most of my electronics use technology that didn't exist in the 70s.

Stewart

 

[fobjob]

The new 406 ELT's also have an impact sensor that is more reliable....??....supposedly...
The testing problem I have not seen addressed....I built an ELT monitor circuit that worked even with no power and applied the audio to the earphone buss...basically a crystal radio...want to see the circuit? It worked fine when I wrecked...located it in the left wing root, so I could wrap the antenna wire around the coax going to the comm antenna. :-?

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Even if you hit the master off quickly upon shutdown, it will make your ELT audio audible before you take off the headset. You could barely hear it with the engine throttled up....

 

[Homerrhoid]

If you want GPS with your ELT it will cost you an additional $1200 or 1500 dollars!

There is a 5 month backorder for Kanad ELT's!

There aren't enough ELT 406 units out there to meet the demand of the U.S. market (like 80,000 or more planes).

Why can't our ELT's have GPS, cost $1000, given that the PLB and EPIRB units available on the market have GPS, 406 MHz, and cost $700 dollars?

I'm going to stick with the 121.5 ELT I have, and take my Sat phone and my GPS! I will buy a 406 when the units catch up with the technology; I believe that will happen within a year or two.

By the way, the satellites may not be listening on 121.5, you and I will be, the CAP will be, and the coast guard choppers and C130's will be. Don't forget the current 406 ELT's also broadcast 121.5 MHz too.

I will purchase one of the 406 ELT's when they weigh 10 oz., have GPS, and cost $1000. They could also put into the unit the ability to send a preprogramed text message, even voice and phone capability. It can be done right now with our current technology. The rules formulated by the ruling class make it difficult/costly for our manufacturers to do so!

 

[jnorris]

I still haven't seen anything to indicate when Canada's requirement for these units will (or is proposed to) go into effect. The Transport Canada web site mentions nothing about this, and an email sent to the address listed on that page hasn't brought a response as of yet. Anybody have any info?

 

[A BELLAND]

I THINK as of now Feb.09 is the date when we will have to install the 406.
Aurele

 

[fobjob]

ELT monitor

For anyone interested, here is the monitor I put on my plane. The transformer can be had from Radio Smack. A higher input impedance would be nice, but unaffordable.
[url]http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=19629&cat=500&ppuser=211 It can be clearly heard when the...it to other things...in the wing root area...