The People You Meet Along the Way

[cafi19]

I am one of those very lucky people who loves their job...mostly because of the people that I meet every day.

Today, Billy and I went to visit one of my customers who is a WWII veteran. He flew both CG4A Gliders and C46's during the war. From what we learned, he spent time in Normandy, England and Holland. He entered the military at 16 (of course they didn't know that) and became the youngest glider pilot at 17. When he began flying gliders, he thought they would be flying supplies to the troops but what they were actually doing was crossing enemy lines. Can't even imagine!!! Very interesting man. He has been collecting things for the last 50 years. To say he has a museum in his house is an understatement. He has everything from patches and medals to hats and uniforms, to weapons, photos, books, models and everything in between. We really enjoyed the visit and appreciate not only his willingness to share with us his experiences but more importantly, his service!

cafi

 

[Iflylower]

God bless those that served. That generation had the stuff.

 

[C-90 Cub]

I met a guy kind of the same way years ago. Needed some odd ball cabinet hardware and the guy at the sales counter couldn't find it. He sent me back to see Bob (Robert) the owner. I walked into his office and it was like a B-17 memorial room. All kinds of pictures and models in there. I just smiled and looked around and said, "Looks like you're pretty fond of the B-17!" He said, "Damn right, I owe my life to them. One hell of an airplane." Then he points to one of the models and says, "I got shot down in that one!" And then he points to another model and says,"And, I got shot down in that one!" I couldn't believe it. I said, "You got shot down in a bomber twice!!" He says, "Yep, and let me tell you, when you get shot out of the sky and then ride a four engine bomber to the ground, or be blessed with enough time to bail out of one that's burning like a raging forest fire, and survive it, I'd say that's a damn good airplane." I humbly agreed. Well, I actually called in work to tell them I was done for the day and sat and talked to Bob for hours. What an amazing man. All I can say is if I am ever tested for inner strength and bravery the way Bob was, I just hope I can measure up to being at least half the man that he was. It was an encounter I'll cherish for life with a man that was larger than life. Bob has since passed away. It's so sad that so many of the people that survived WWII are passing away at such an alarming rate and their experience is going to the grave with them. In my opinion, they were the greatest generation of Americans that have ever lived.

Steve

 

[Bill Ingerson]

I agree, its so interesting to talk with the older vets about what they did. So many of them knew they were not coming back but went anyway. Some how they made it. So far I have not been to a airport yet that I haven't found some old vet that was there and had so much to say, but would not have said anything if I had not asked. We owe so much to all that serve, today we have some of the bravest vets out there. Want to read a good book this winter just read about the seal team in " Lone Survivor " Written by Marcus Luttrell. Its a eyewitness account of operation redwing and the heroes of seal team 10.
I really feel saying thanks to our Vets is not enough. There out there fighting for our freedom to fly our airplanes, at least we could give them a ride.


Bill

 

[Torch]

All Vets are the same. We have some today that are doing just as tough a job. One thing, the American G.I. is still the same. He has a job to do and does it to the best of his abilities. The WWII guys weren't any better than any other G.I. that has gone afield. Our G.I.'s are the BEST and it doesn't matter what generation they are from. Frankly being a Vet myself I am tired of hearing about one generation being better than any other. We have guys out there today in harms way that are giving everything they have to get a tough job done and some are losing their lives over it. They ain't chopped liver. Nice story but unfortunately there are G.I.'s out there making new stories for future generations.

 

[CloudDancer]

Damn well spoke Torch. Damn well spoke...

CD

 

[C-90 Cub]

All Vets are the same. We have some today that are doing just as tough a job. One thing, the American G.I. is still the same. He has a job to do and does it to the best of his abilities. The WWII guys weren't any better than any other G.I. that has gone afield. Our G.I.'s are the BEST and it doesn't matter what generation they are from. Frankly being a Vet myself I am tired of hearing about one generation being better than any other. We have guys out there today in harms way that are giving everything they have to get a tough job done and some are losing their lives over it. They ain't chopped liver. Nice story but unfortunately there are G.I.'s out there making new stories for future generations.

Torch,
I have the utmost respect for anyone that has served for this country. I wasn't trying to pick one group of vets over the other. Bob was an amazing man that captured my heart that day. All I was trying to say is that never has this whole country pulled together like it did in WWII. The men and women fighting overseas combined with the monumental effort of the people at home to supply aircraft, ships, tanks, etc. at a production rate never before seen in the history of the world. As a country, we were a UNITED group of proud people, doing the impossible.


I appoligize to you. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I, as much as anyone, greatly appreciate what ALL of what our service men and women have done for me. When I look around at people talking and not paying attention during the National Anthem I think of what a slap in the face that is to our military people. I still remove my cover, face the American Flag and stand proud with my hand over my heart for the National Anthem and I have never been in the military. And that my friend is out of pure respect for you, and all the military people, past, present, and future, that has given me the freedom I have enjoyed my whole life. It's the one thing I can still do to show you my respect for your sacrifices, and monumental efforts, in protecting our country and my freedom. So, please don't ever think think that I don't appreciate ALL of our veterans and I appologize to you again if that's the way my post sounded.

Sincerely,
Steve

 

[ndill]

All Vets are the same. We have some today that are doing just as tough a job. One thing, the American G.I. is still the same. He has a job to do and does it to the best of his abilities. The WWII guys weren't any better than any other G.I. that has gone afield. Our G.I.'s are the BEST and it doesn't matter what generation they are from. Frankly being a Vet myself I am tired of hearing about one generation being better than any other. We have guys out there today in harms way that are giving everything they have to get a tough job done and some are losing their lives over it. They ain't chopped liver. Nice story but unfortunately there are G.I.'s out there making new stories for future generations.

I agree with torch I have nothing but respect for the vets of Iraq and Afghanistan. What concerns me is that alot of
these guys are surviving wounds that would have killed them in former wars and I'm afraid that at some point they
will be forgotten by our Quote "leaders".

 

[Torch]

C-90 Cub, I didn't take your post that way. I have met some WWII pilots and navigators and they are amazing guys to talk to, and I agree they are great guys. My point is we seem to always have a great generation of young soldiers. The unfortunate thing about WWII and other wars was a lot of them paid the ultimate sacrifice. From the start of this nation our soldiers have always done their best and I am proud of every one of them. I just happen to be one myself but I thank them all for their service.

 

[King Brown]

Not taking anything from one generation or another, my question is why so many PTSDs today? I've been writing on military affairs for more than 50 years with a particular interest in how LMF (Lacking Moral Fibre) was applied particularly to air crew members during the Second World War. One famed Canadian regiment wouldn't allow a great company commander to enter the officers' mess after the war because he "broke" in the Scheldt estuary fighting, an entirely different attitude then to battle fatigue. I have a notion the high number of PTSDs today is because the forces are drawing from persons looking to the military as a job of last resort. They're there for the wrong reasons. I know first-hand of teachers telling their students they must grade to get into the services because there are no jobs for them in their resource-dependent communities. No one should take from the dedication and competence of today's servicemen. But it's still a fair question: To what extent is joining for a job, skills training and pension responsible for so many shattered lives today compared to an earlier generation that saw their duty differently and did it?

 

[Beach Bum]

I have to agree with all the posts above. Never done that before!

 

[mvivion]

King,

I think you're wrong. There is a definitive book on the Normandy Invasion, which came out fairly recently. It was heavily researched. One of the things that interested me was the notations of the THOUSANDS of "shell shock" "battle fatigue" soldiers coming back to the Normandy beachheads well after the invasion for evacuation back to England. The numbers given were staggering.

Bear in mind, these were largely draftees.

Now, flash to the present day. You sure don't hear about soldiers refusing to go into combat, ie: "battle fatigue", and that's not what PTSD is.

The P in PTSD stands for POST Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think you are talking about two VERY different phenomena here.

And, more and more, we're finding that there WAS and IS PTSD effects on combatants from ALL wars. While PTSD has gotten a lot of attention as associated with these wars, there's no doubt in my mind that there are veterans from every conflict who suffer the effects of that condition. Just because it wasn't described in 1952 doesn't mean it didn't occur.

One thing is that in this day and age we TALK about these things more than we did after WWII. Media coverage of these conflicts and their aftermath is MUCH more thorough, right or wrong.

Frankly, I doubt that much has changed. I believe that PTSD is very real, and I also believe that many WWII vets have suffered with that condition for decades as a result of their combat experience, as have Korean War vets, Vietnam Vets, etc. Probably one of the reasons that we frequently hear the refrain "He never talked about his combat experiences".....with reference to many vets.

MTV

 

[King Brown]

MTV, I agree with your opinion generally and any divide is not so much from inaccuracy as coming at it differently. I was covering the India-Pakistan war in the early 70s from both sides of the lines when US officers were being fragged by their men in Vietnam. You may have read the US-commissioned studies, polls and books by combatants at all levels about how servicemen feel about their time in Iraq and Afghanistan (which are similar to our own). Their concern was mostly what purpose when Second World War combatants knew the purpose and fought to get the job done to come home. I also read D-Day, The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor, arguably successor to John Keegan as currently finest military historian. I discussed this issue with the distinguished US soldier and academic Paul Fussell, author of Wartime, a splendid book. There were more men and women engaged in WW 2 where there now are boys and girls, however valorously committed to their countries. Age makes a difference. What you say about PTSD always there is accurate, in my view Our combatants, however, were brought into the military differently from now when countries arbitrarily and pre-emptively engage in wars of choice. Who could imagine the most powerful countries, the US and Soviet Union, withdrawing from wars where adversaries plant bombs, commit suicide, have no armies, navies or air forces, having lost public support at home? A younger generation we ask to sacrifice life and limbs, now speaking truth to power, is different from the earlier one. That's one-up for this generation, too.

 

[dgmoore1]

"In all of history, there are two people who agreed to give their live for you, One was Jesus Christ , the other was the U.S Military.

 

[sj]

Laura and Billy get to have all the fun and meet all the cool people while I sit in Kansas City.

sj

 

[cubdriver2]

Laura and Billy get to have all the fun and meet all the cool people while I sit in Kansas City.

sj

Could be your breath or maybe your deodorant, hope it's not both.

Glenn

 

[behindpropellers]

Could be your breath or maybe your deodorant, hope it's not both.

Glenn

Glenn gives his advice from his own experiences.

 

[Bill Ingerson]

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder seem's to effect alot of our soldiers in all wars. I am glad there is finally some help for them. In 1965 - 1970 so many soldiers from Vietnam were coming back home just 2 or 3 days afters fighting in the jungles. What a shock to come back to there own country to be spit on. Jane Fonda helped with that some. My brother inlaw weigh's about 160 lbs and was a drafted as a Army ground pounder, he was the only one in his company to make it out alive. When he goes on Vacation and they fly in a jet, that night he goes crazy and starts throwing all the chairs and other things through the windows. They found out its when the jet is landing has some reaction to his problem. He finally is getting help through the V.A. He might not be a good person to take for a ride in my Cub. Sure glad he is getting help.


Bill

 

[sj]

Update: Last night,Laura, Billy, and I watched two WWII training films (1944) on using these CG-4A gliders. Very cool. Talk about STOL. I'm going to try to youtube these videos if I can get them VHS->DVD etc. It is an amazing part of our aviation history that I was clueless about.

Here is a short vid I found about them, nothing like the ones we watched last night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZyaRANv4Q&noredirect=1

The "Snatch" pickup is probably the most exciting although apparently a non-event based on the videos. You are sitting on the ground in your 5000lb glider and a C47 comes by at 130mph and grabs your rope and yanks you off the ground. Has to be exhilarating!

sj

 

[Steve Pierce]

Got to be the scariest feeling in the world, gliding down to an unkown landing zone with people shooting at you in one of these things.

 

[aktango58]

Laura and Billy get to have all the fun and meet all the cool people while I sit in Kansas City.

sj

You got to meet them!

 

[cafi19]

Had another nice visit with my friendly pilot customer the other day. I so thoroughly enjoy chatting with him. The intent of the visit was to return his Glider training videos. Coincidentally....shortly after watching the training videos he had loaned us, I finally got around to reading a book that I had picked up several months prior Lost in Shangri-La. The timing was amazing because the rescue vehicle was none other than the aforementioned glider. Amazing story!

In our conversation on the phone I had mentioned the coincidence. When I arrived, he had a 1974 publication with the reprint of the Readers Digest condensed version from 1945.





He sent me home with it. He also sent me home with a few other interesting goodies including a Air Navagators Hand Book from the US Navy from 1945, and instrument flying reference manual from 1943, Complete Examination Questions and Answers Airplane and Engines from November 1941 and Maintenance, Repair, and Alteration of Certificated Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Propellers, and Instruments from 1943.



To look at some of it....looks pretty much like our cubs. Interesting little piece of our history. I am enjoying looking through them. Some of the questions in the questions and answers book I wonder how many would be able to answer today. ;-) Sounds like another thread.

cafi

 

[Dan Gervae]

I bought a T-Craft from a WW2 vet friend of ours 20 years ago....he flew 50 missions in B24's out of Cerignola Italy...He is still alive (94 yrs old) I take him to lunch once a month or so and he tells me the same stories he been telling me for 30 some years.....each time they are as riveting as the next. Soon these heros will all be gone....so cherish any time you get to spend with them. I can't imagine the ME109's and FW190's comin at me with tracers whizzing through the air....then comes the Flack........wow.

 

[King Brown]

I got the book for Christmas from a family member. The Associated Press reporter who brought the story to the world, Ralph Morton, was a Nova Scotian, a friend for many years who ended his career back in Halifax editing the legislature's Hansard.

 

[Cubus Maximus]

I used to enjoy listening to my neighbor "Bumpy" Bruning. He flew B-24's with the 15th AAF on missions over flak intensive targets like Vienna et al (was even on the horrific British 8th Army run). His stories were incredible (He showed me once his B-24's operating manual that was in PERFECT condition.) Even crossing the Med from bases in North Africa had it's moments. Some were even funny, like the time he put it down on the water in ground effect and the crew in back started yelling that water was coming in! And training had its issues as well. Like the time they had picked up a new B-24 and were flying a night approach into a Colorado base. The airport was blacked out and he asked for the lights to be turned on the strip. Someone in the control facility turned on the taxiway lights by mistake and so they lined up on it. On short final he threw the landing lights on, only to see 20+ Cessna twin trainers (Bamboo Bomber) lined up with props turning waiting to depart on a night training mission. Full power and RROOAAARRR over the top, missing the idling aircraft by only 20 feet or so overhead. WHEW!!!
Bumpy (and my Grandpa!) is gone now along with so many of his brothers...

 

[Grizzley]

All Vets are the same. We have some today that are doing just as tough a job. One thing, the American G.I. is still the same. He has a job to do and does it to the best of his abilities. The WWII guys weren't any better than any other G.I. that has gone afield. Our G.I.'s are the BEST and it doesn't matter what generation they are from. Frankly being a Vet myself I am tired of hearing about one generation being better than any other. We have guys out there today in harms way that are giving everything they have to get a tough job done and some are losing their lives over it. They ain't chopped liver. Nice story but unfortunately there are G.I.'s out there making new stories for future generations.

I agree with most of what I read through the posts. Some wars were (are) more "popular" than others, with the country behind the effort, others (Vietnam to name just one) were not, which changes public opinion of our armed forces. The people serving are not the ones who start the stuff, they are the ones who's job it is to end the stuff...
I served in the Special Forces and I always (and still do) had much respect for those who preceded me. One evening, a couple of friends and I went for a brew at one of the local Legions. We had just gotten back from a nasty mission and were back for 10 days or so before heading back to a different conflict in the Middle East. I overheard one of the old timers, slightly "marinated", sitting with his buds at another table being disrespectful towards us; saying we had it easy and we weren't so tough, nothing today compares to the "Big One"... All this without cause. I walked towards their table, with a big smile, I addressed the gentleman who had uttered what I considered disrespectful, asked if I had heard right, that they were WWII vets? Yes we are!! I thanked them for their service for us, which brought him up a couple of inches, but then, I nicely reminded him that we were all volunteers, not drafted and to make it to the elite group we were members of, we not only had to be the best, but we had to volunteer for all the extra training and for every black op mission where we "never were", and that they were still using real bullets, mortars and bombs, that we were loosing brothers at every turn... And all that for an extra $25 a month...
I bought them a round and asked them to please try and give us a little respect as we always give them and to please add us to their prayers. The old guy was speechless, but he got the message and every one went home a bit humbler that night...
Thanks to any and all that put it on the line and to those who support or back our troops.
Grizz, Ex Coelis