The Engine is Talking

[Steve Pierce]

The engine was telling me something. I have a friend who bought this 2001 data plate Cub Crafters Super Cub recently with 450 hours total time. He did an oil analysis and was concerned about high metal content. He brought it in for a 100/annual inspection prior to a trip to Idaho next week. Compressions were good so yesterday morning I cut the oil filter. I could see quite a bit of copper looking specks and running a magnet over the pleats I was getting ferrous hairs. I then soaked the paper element in av gas and rinsed them, poured the fuel through a paint filter and used the magnet.

I have consulted with my buddy Ken at LyCon on such issues and he always says the engine is telling me something. I pulled a cylinder and it was.


Some heavy scoring and some pitting in the cylinder.


So during all the thunderstorms yesterday with my biggest dog at my feet all day (he is scared to death of thunder) I got it off.


So I know what I am working on today.


Going out west to do a pre-buy and remove a cylinder on another one that has been inactive after ArkanSTOL. Be vigilant, this stuff ain't cheap.

 

[Pacerfgoe]

We see a lot of these cam follower/ camshaft problems these days, and I’m wondering if the same problems were happening in the 60’s and 70’s at the same rate?

If not, is it the difference in oil additives, or by products of combustion with different fuels, or something else?

anyone have some answers.....

 

[stewartb]

I blame Covid for pretty much everything.

 

[Steve Pierce]

We see a lot of these cam follower/ camshaft problems these days, and I’m wondering if the same problems were happening in the 60’s and 70’s at the same rate?

If not, is it the difference in oil additives, or by products of combustion with different fuels, or something else?

anyone have some answers.....

450 hours in 19 years. Pitting in the cylinders walls. I blame this one on inactivity. As I have posted before I am hearing positive things about the DLC (diamond like coating) that Lycoming is using on their cam followers now. To date no corrosion issues on those followers and it has been several years that they have been using them.

 

[stewartb]

We see a lot of these cam follower/ camshaft problems these days, and I’m wondering if the same problems were happening in the 60’s and 70’s at the same rate?

If not, is it the difference in oil additives, or by products of combustion with different fuels, or something else?

The internet.

 

[Steve Pierce]

I’m told the A-Model that I built and got flipped down your way had a bad cam/lifters when they did the prop strike inspection, that had the new style lycoming lifters and 76097 camshaft. That engine was less than 2 years old and 200hrs but only had a sump heater when it was here.

It is coming in for a pre-buy soon, I will verify.

 

[don d]

Are Newer cams and followers garbage? Give me a 50 year old engine?

 

[8GCBC]

May I suggest the engine was screaming bloody murder? That’s a ton of metal.

 

[daedgerton]

That old girl is getting passed around a-lot

I would have taken great care of it! 8)

 

[mike mcs repair]

The internet.

So many things that are common repairs and methods.

But you get on the Internet and some bozos will say it can’t be done. Or that’s wrong way....




Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

 

[Steve Pierce]

May I suggest the engine was screaming bloody murder? That’s a ton of metal.

View attachment 50886

Seen worse.

 

[KevinJ]

I would have taken great care of it! 8)

Me too. I bet I could have flown it at least another month before I’d have wrecked it:lol:

 

[wireweinie]

But you get on the Internet and some bozos will say it can’t be done. Or that’s wrong way....

Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

Isn't that what we're doing here on a daily basis? :smile:

Web

 

[wireweinie]

Lol. I was thinking that I wish that all I've ever been called was a 'bozo'.

Web

 

[Steve Pierce]

That old girl is getting passed around a-lot

It is to nice for the present owner to comfortably bang around and treat it like a Cub.

 

[KevinJ]

You guys are great for job security but sure are hurting the insurance rates.

Man, isn’t that the truth. It’s been a tough couple weeks for 180s. If the write offs keep going like they have been we’ll all be self insuring.

 

[Steve Pierce]

A little rust inside.

 

[mike mcs repair]

A little rust inside.

View attachment 50888

View attachment 50889

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but nothing that would make you fall out of the sky....

but maybe prevent you from getting into the sky, at a certain load....

 

[stewartb]

Interesting how bad three followers are on three different lobes while the opposing ones look pretty good.

 

[mike mcs repair]

Probably wouldn’t take you out of the sky but that much metal going through the engine can can really run up the repair bill.

metal only goes through the pump once.... then gets caught in the screen or filter.....

 

[mike mcs repair]

In theory that sounds good but I've seen way to much sh!t inbeded in bearings and maybe bought one or two cranks I didn't need too if the screen would have been 100% fool proof.

thats the whole reasons bearings are softer is to also catch the metal....

 

[BC12D-4-85]

What oil was used over its life? Not much residual golden sheen.

Gary

 

[Steve Pierce]

I’m told the A-Model that I built and got flipped down your way had a bad cam/lifters when they did the prop strike inspection, that had the new style lycoming lifters and 76097 camshaft. That engine was less than 2 years old and 200hrs but only had a sump heater when it was here.

Looking at the logbook entry for the prop strike inspection. 68.51 SMOH, crankcase was sent to Crankcase Services, crankshaft, connecting rods, hydraulic units, lifters and gears sent to Aircraft Specialty Services. Cam replaced with certified part number 76097. Kinda od to have to replace the cam but not the lifters. Lifters usually go first.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Interesting how bad three followers are on three different lobes while the opposing ones look pretty good.

Actually all the lifters are pitted just some are further along than others.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I’m told the A-Model that I built and got flipped down your way had a bad cam/lifters when they did the prop strike inspection, that had the new style lycoming lifters and 76097 camshaft. That engine was less than 2 years old and 200hrs but only had a sump heater when it was here.

I have a rieff turbo cyl, sump and cooler. Baby bottle in the breather. When I use the pre heater in the winter the bottle fills with mostly water and some oil. Oil only when not using the heater


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[daedgerton]

I've been running a home built engine dehydrator this summer (airtight container, silica gel and aquarium pump) hoping to avoid these issues. Would love to be able to fly 2-3 times a week to burn off that moisture but that is just not a reality at this point in time.

 

[stewartb]

When I bought my old friend Crash's 160hp engine he'd been winter flying from his heated hangar. He went in and out of the cold regularly until he pulled the motor to upgrade to 180hp. When I cold compression tested it two cylinders were very low so I decided to pull the cylinders. The rocker drains on all four were full of water. The cam was badly pitted over 100% of the lobe surfaces. The followers were perfect, though. He offered to give my money back but I kept the motor and overhauled it. The point is that even a heated hangar makes water when you fly in the cold.

Argon is heavier than air. If I could find an affordable argon gauge I'd introduce argon into the oil filler until all the air was displaced. Rust threat solved. The problem is an argon gauge is several thousand dollars.

 

[hotrod180]

.....Argon is heavier than air. If I could find an affordable argon gauge I'd introduce argon into the oil filler until all the air was displaced. Rust threat solved. The problem is an argon gauge is several thousand dollars.

TIG welding uses argon gas.
I've seen some relatively inexpensive TIG set-ups,
they must not come with the argon gauge if they're "several thousand dollars".

 

[akavidflyer]

When I bought my old friend Crash's 160hp engine he'd been winter flying from his heated hangar. He went in and out of the cold regularly until he pulled the motor to upgrade to 180hp. When I cold compression tested it two cylinders were very low so I decided to pull the cylinders. The rocker drains on all four were full of water. The cam was badly pitted over 100% of the lobe surfaces. The followers were perfect, though. He offered to give my money back but I kept the motor and overhauled it. The point is that even a heated hangar makes water when you fly in the cold.

Argon is heavier than air. If I could find an affordable argon gauge I'd introduce argon into the oil filler until all the air was displaced. Rust threat solved. The problem is an argon gauge is several thousand dollars.

I sure didn't pay several grand for the argon gauges that I use for my MIG and TIG welders, more like 60 bucks.. Simple flow meter on the bottle that you can throttle all you want.

 

[stewartb]

I've got argon bottles and regulators. I need an argon sensor to know when the air is exhausted. At least temporarily. Once rate/time of fill is established all I need is a timer.