Awesome thread guys! Thanks for reactivating this with a recent post so that it gets on my radar! I use a slip on my obstacle-impinged private runway habitually - 98% with left wing low due to prevailing crosswinds and with wonderful pilot visibility from my 4-seat PA-14. This made me realize that I had gotten complacent and was not really keeping my brain activated with the possibilities/risks/rewards of the tool. Thanks!
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The big slip
- Thread starter cgoldy
- Start date
flagold
Registered User
Abbeville, Alabama
Practicing slips is a major tool in your arsenal. Your nose should be towards the wind to prevent drift. Sometime when the wind is straight down the runway come in high and practice coming down like a leaf - nose right, nose left. Keep the speed at your target and when straightened out - you should have remained on the centerline throughout. Keep doing so until you can and you'll be able to get into tight fields with trees. Your initial instructor should have exposed you to this so it's not voodoo. If that's the case - get one that will show you this - it's very important to know.
One thing I'm not a big fan of is slips with full flaps: you can lose rudder authority and lose airplane control close to the ground. Slips were meant for aircraft that had no flaps originally and it's good to keep that in mind. 20º of flaps was all I was comfortable with (I could transition and takeoff with that readily if I got in trouble).
One thing I'm not a big fan of is slips with full flaps: you can lose rudder authority and lose airplane control close to the ground. Slips were meant for aircraft that had no flaps originally and it's good to keep that in mind. 20º of flaps was all I was comfortable with (I could transition and takeoff with that readily if I got in trouble).
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I guess you have never slipped a Boeing 727 with full flaps and speed brakes extended? It comes down very nicely with a smooth round out at the bottom.
flagold
Registered User
Abbeville, Alabama
Undoubtedly.
In the SC universe, if you're coming in with full flaps & trying to put a slip on top of that to make things right - it's time to think about a go-around in my opinion.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Just pulling your chain cept'n it's true. The B-727 does do nice slips. In the SC universe, it too can do nice full flap slips with the nose pointed up and the wing tip pointed at the ground. The seat of your pants will tell you which control to relax first, when, and at what altitude in plenty of time to round out and make a smooth landing.
flagold
Registered User
Abbeville, Alabama
All good. A guy with your kind of experience can pick up rudder blanking (shake) I get that.
Reading through this thread though - there's some guys here that haven't got the slip down yet let alone a full flap one and may not understand a low wing plane in a full flap slip (generally most of them) has full rudder control. A high wing plane in a full flap slip can be very dangerous to the ego and spotless record as you can lose rudder control close to the ground.
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
My flaps are extended inboard, big slips aren't a problem.
Same here, flaps inboard. Full faps, big slip, nose up, when the high wing stalls it just drops to level. You have lots of time to just lower the nose and move slip the the other direction (falling leaf style) or just stop molesting the plane. I would say before anyone wants to try this get some spin training and go to altitude and see just what YOUR plane will do, just because it is a red and white cub like your friends does not mean the fly/handle the same.
DENNY
DENNY
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Yes, this. I hear things like breaking over the top and I've always been fairly conservative in the recovery to normal flight. I wanna go play at lower speeds at 3k plus. I think - but don't know - that the dangerous problems come with skids rather than slips.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I am spoiled from slipping the Clipper, Super Cub needs more rudder to do as an aggressive slip as I am used to doing in that airplane. I think my Da's 160 hp Clipper would have kicked but at ArkanSTOL with the original course where you slip down the ridge to the restaurant and River strips and over the trees to the short two.
Grant
FRIEND
At Work.....
Yes - and usually the pilot knows he is slipping, but is often unaware he is skidding.....until...
Rob
MEMBER
AZ06
Negative, first of all, as your wing drops through level, you will find that your rudder is already in the position it will need to be in if you actually fell through to a spin. (read; anti spin)
Second off, your going to have to force it there to make it happen. And lastly, having spent quite literally years of flight time low level, I think if coordinated flight would be a requirement for logging time, my log book would be cut in half. With a 60' wing running 8' off the canopy and trying to maintain a reasonable deposition, wagging you wings just doesn't work. Not for efficiency and not for deposition, not for terrain avoidance. In the turns, after the apex you are nose down, you can kick the rudder for target acquisition all you want, stalling while you're already falling out of the sky nose down will not be possible without a ridiculous elevator input, consequently so will spinning.
cubdriver2 said:
Yes! because if the implication is you are slipping to a landing (which in my mind means holding it all the way through wheel rolling), then the controls should be selected where you need them for crosswind correction on the ground. Performed correctly in much crosswind, a slip to landing will finding you holding the aileron you had or even adding more in if you were not at full deflection. Why would you slip clear to the ground the wrong way, and then flop the aileron the other side when you touch down?
Take care, Rob
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RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
I’m hardly an expert, but if I’m trying a new airplane I go up high and slow it down to see what happens. Stalls, turns, etc. After figuring level stall speed, I like to try slips on both sides, slowing down until close to the stall speed.
The super cub I tried was docile. Relax the rudder and it went level.
My Commonwealth is the same way.
Fwiw, a Tomahawk is more exciting.
When you are in ground effect in a crosswind, you can’t really avoid a slip anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
The super cub I tried was docile. Relax the rudder and it went level.
My Commonwealth is the same way.
Fwiw, a Tomahawk is more exciting.
When you are in ground effect in a crosswind, you can’t really avoid a slip anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Correcting the spelling: "trauma-hawk"
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I used to know one of Piper's test pilots for that airplane. I sold him a set of floats for his PA-12. As I recall he was told by management words to the effect "get it certified, we need a trainer to sell". I don't remember any of the details, that was long ago.
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
Lol. I got my ppl in 1980 in a Traumahawk. I learned spins in it too. It was an “E ride”.
Later I spun a Citabria and was surprised how slow it went around.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
Later I spun a Citabria and was surprised how slow it went around.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
At a Beech dealer I worked at for some years I used my C-150 for my parts getter. I was headed out one afternoon to fetch some material and the head of Maintenance said for me to take the Skipper since we just finished a 100, it needed to be flown, I mentioned I have not flown one, he said you know how to fly. So off I went. I like the control feel, light and responsive. Power, I now know why I had to pull branches out of the LG after a warm weekend.
After I got back I asked if he would take me up for a few spins, No he said, we do not spin them.
I am not sure if that is overly cautious or just why, I guess at that time they were teaching "spin avoidance". Oh well.
After I got back I asked if he would take me up for a few spins, No he said, we do not spin them.
I am not sure if that is overly cautious or just why, I guess at that time they were teaching "spin avoidance". Oh well.
i suppose ill add my aeronautical theories pertaining to cubs. remember, every airplane will act different and what is safe in one might kill you in another.
in my opinion with any aircraft that is slip freinldy. the safest approach to be in a habit of doing is a gliding approach with 20-50% slip. the reason being that it acts as the only real safety buffer in the event of an engine failure combined with a down draft. this senerio is pretty self explanatory so ill leave it to the imagination. (it equivilant to pulling half spoiler while flying the pattern in a glidder... spoiler IS your throttle)
my experiance in a 789lb L-4 cub with non counter balanced elevators, 85hp engine with a 70 inch prop, with a zero down thrust engine and front seat solo. while in a 50% left slip and with a touch of power while indicating approx 50 mph and making a right turn to final i had the elevator begin to stall on me 1 time..... and when you notice whats happening it scares the living hell outa you. you notice it when you go to ease the nose up and the nose does nothing, so you add a touch more and the nose responds by going down. i climbed up to altitude and spent several hrs trying to replicate the senerio and finally got it to happen 1 more time. the elevator buffeted and the nose lazily pitched down. neutralizing rudder and elevator seemed to make an instant fix. the plane got sold before i could test it more.
my own L-4 with counter balanced tail feathers does not display any of that trait in slips.
heres a fun landing techniuqe to practice that teaches great energy mangament .... the exaggerated carrier approach. fly downwind, put the runway 30degrees below you, once abeam the runway #'s pull the power, go to 50-80% rudder and slip all through base to final. no power adjustments allowd. if done perfectly you'll be in a constant rate turn, adjsting decent with the rudder, then exist the slip, roll leval, and touch the wheels down, on the #'s in three point, all within a second. id recommend doing this with a couple seconds of buffer before flaring or practice this on dirt first. its easy to ride the slip to lang and touch down EXTREMELY (disastrously) sideways.
the reason a plane feels more solid when slipping at the same speed as slow flight is that the wings are not lifting as much, the fuselage is sharing the load. when the wings produce less lift the ailerons are more effective produce less adverse yaw and so feels more responsive. when showing improper stalls in my cub by using aileron to lift the wing which induces a spin i can get the plane to recover with just elevator and rudder while leaving the stick pinned full left.... the recovery turns into a full slip. so in my opinion a spin is actually a spin resistant maneuver when it comes to my specific cub setup. (counter balanced tail, J-3 engine mount, etc, no VG's etc).
in my opinion with any aircraft that is slip freinldy. the safest approach to be in a habit of doing is a gliding approach with 20-50% slip. the reason being that it acts as the only real safety buffer in the event of an engine failure combined with a down draft. this senerio is pretty self explanatory so ill leave it to the imagination. (it equivilant to pulling half spoiler while flying the pattern in a glidder... spoiler IS your throttle)
my experiance in a 789lb L-4 cub with non counter balanced elevators, 85hp engine with a 70 inch prop, with a zero down thrust engine and front seat solo. while in a 50% left slip and with a touch of power while indicating approx 50 mph and making a right turn to final i had the elevator begin to stall on me 1 time..... and when you notice whats happening it scares the living hell outa you. you notice it when you go to ease the nose up and the nose does nothing, so you add a touch more and the nose responds by going down. i climbed up to altitude and spent several hrs trying to replicate the senerio and finally got it to happen 1 more time. the elevator buffeted and the nose lazily pitched down. neutralizing rudder and elevator seemed to make an instant fix. the plane got sold before i could test it more.
my own L-4 with counter balanced tail feathers does not display any of that trait in slips.
heres a fun landing techniuqe to practice that teaches great energy mangament .... the exaggerated carrier approach. fly downwind, put the runway 30degrees below you, once abeam the runway #'s pull the power, go to 50-80% rudder and slip all through base to final. no power adjustments allowd. if done perfectly you'll be in a constant rate turn, adjsting decent with the rudder, then exist the slip, roll leval, and touch the wheels down, on the #'s in three point, all within a second. id recommend doing this with a couple seconds of buffer before flaring or practice this on dirt first. its easy to ride the slip to lang and touch down EXTREMELY (disastrously) sideways.
the reason a plane feels more solid when slipping at the same speed as slow flight is that the wings are not lifting as much, the fuselage is sharing the load. when the wings produce less lift the ailerons are more effective produce less adverse yaw and so feels more responsive. when showing improper stalls in my cub by using aileron to lift the wing which induces a spin i can get the plane to recover with just elevator and rudder while leaving the stick pinned full left.... the recovery turns into a full slip. so in my opinion a spin is actually a spin resistant maneuver when it comes to my specific cub setup. (counter balanced tail, J-3 engine mount, etc, no VG's etc).
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