tail ski

[courierguy]

I am just about ready to flight test my new DatumAir retractable wheel skis. I also have a wheel penetration tailwheel ski. I understand most don't use a tail ski, but hell I paid for it :-? and plan to operate in fairly deep snow as the skis are rated for 2000 lb gross and I'm only 1320 lb.

I was told it was a bolt on deal (the tail ski), yes, but it hangs nose down, not good. It'd get complicated trying to rig a bungee/ cable and all that, like the mains. I had an idea today to counter balance the nose with some lead on the T.E. of the ski, so it'd fly nose up, and even if it flew too high nose up it wouldn't hurt anything, it'd just be draggy. I could possibly rig a stop so it'd fly right and still swivel etc. The small pilot hole in the picture is now drilled out for the axle. I don't want to change the axle location as I'm sure it's there for a reason.

What have you all seen in tailwheel skis, any info would be appreciated.

 

[Torch]

I have a Burl Rogers tailski. Works very well.

 

[mvivion]

It would be a very simple matter to connect a short limit cable and a bungee to the front of the ski, and attach to the tailspring attach point.

I wouldn't install a tail ski without a limit cable. Your idea of weights might be an okay idea in flight, but I'd be afraid that on the surface, the tail of the ski would hit something, and push the tail of the ski UP, which would then cause the nose of the ski to submarine....NOT a good thing.

I'm only talking a very short cable and a small bungee, so not significant weight, and no drag comparatively.

As I said, I wouldn't run a tail ski without these. And, I am a big believer in tail skis even on light airplanes.

MTV

 

[courierguy]

I was in the middle of my main ski install, and while waiting on a machinist I made a half way effort to install the tail wheel ski. I guess I was thinking I could just run the new/longer axle through it and be done with it. I can use the leaf spring attach bolt, and go the bungee and safety cable route like the mains, I'll just need to be sure the tail swivels the correct way when I back it into (actually out of after backing it into )the hanger.... so the bungee doesn't get wrapped around the aft part of the spring.

Now that I think about it, that situation would pretty much only occur when dragging it backwards into the hanger, normal 180 degree turns while taxing would not be a problem. Sometimes it helps to state the obvious to make things clearer!

 

[StewartB]

I have two different penetration tail skis and both use similar position control fixtures. Here's a picture of the FliLite/Fluidyne tail ski on the -12. Notice the attachment to the tail wheel fork. That attachment fixes the nose-up attitude of the ski. No give, no check cables. What you see is what you get. My Burl's Magnum ski has a very similar attachment to the tail wheel fork. That one has a little give so the ski can seek it's own attitude on the snow but the nose-up angle is always positive. Since the connection is to the fork the tail wheel retains it's ability to swivel.

 

[swisscubpilot]

That attachment fixes the nose-up attitude of the ski.

A fixed angle as shown in the picture is the best you can get.

Everything else is just tinkering.

Hans

 

[courierguy]

That's the way to go, no question. I really still wasn't getting how I could keep the fully swiveling feature with the bungee etc. I'll cobble something up tomorrow, thanks for the info. I figured this site was the place to go!

Warning:the following picture is NOT a SC, but it does show an airplane on some pretty different type of skis, on 12" or a bit more of fresh snow. The new 12" was over the winter base, probably 30" or so to the ground. Big skis for a small plane gives me a pretty light footprint, so far so good. I'm really liking the full wheel capability, nothing of the ski comes close to dragging on the dirt and gravel of my runway, pavement is even better.

 

[StewartB]

Nice!

What are the slack black cords hanging from the forward attachments?

SB

 

[Tim]

Stewart, that's the power cord to work the retract system.

 

[aktango58]

Better come up here for some glacier work with that cool bird!

Looks like fun

 

[courierguy]

I spent the day in the shop due to the high winds and MORE SNOW, a great incentive to get that tailwheel ski on. Here's the finished product. Like the main skis it will allow gravel, dirt, and pavement operations as normal.
I'll see if it works tomorrow morning

 

[courierguy]

And...the final product in action today in some of the recent deep snow, the tail ski works perfect

 

[WindOnHisNose]

Mike, can you explain why you are so big on tailwheel skis? I bought one, used it for a year and then I think I read on a thread here that unless you are on really soft, deep snow your really don't need one...so I haven't used it since.

Educate me, please.

Randy

 

[courierguy]

Randy,
I'm not Mike, but I think you're addressing me...? I'll chime in anyway: I'm using it because I bought it, and I bought it because as long as I was getting everything else shipped across an international border, and while I was writing out the big check for the mains, another little extra didn't seem so bad.

I'm the wrong guy to ask, as my sum total of ski flying is now a bit over 5 hours, but that does include about 45 landings (and takeoffs) now, almost all on slopes in the mountains. I seem to remember seeing a few pictures somewhere of planes with the snow up to and past the bottom of the rudder, and I guess that is part of my decision to use it also.

Tom

 

[wlathchan]

That would be a good experience for me as a skier. I have never tried to do ski flying but I really wanted to experience it. I hope one day I can, this is very exciting for me.

 

[mvivion]

Randy,

The tail ski offers several advantages, depending on the snow conditions you may encounter.

1) If you operate in deep powder snow, the tail ski will really help to keep the tail of the airplane in a neutral pitch attitude, and help modulate drag.

2) Even in not so deep snow, sometimes it's hard to find the "perfect" pitch attitude for takeoff. A tailski can really help there as well. If you have a LITTLE bit too much weight on the tail, it will create a lot of drag, but the tail ski will float the tail nicely. Granted, you can push a bit of forward stick to lift the tail, but that creates drag from the elevator deflection AND push just a wee bit too hard, and the toes of the skis snub a bit, also creating drag. With the tail ski, the tail will float nicely, and its easier to minimize drag on takeoff. Granted that only matters in short spots or lousy snow, but both those happen.

3) In crusty snow, your tail WILL get beat up really bad at times, depending on the snow conditions, the depth of the crust, thickness, etc. Again, the tailski will help to float the tail on top of a crust, and hopefully protect your tail feathers from chunks of crusty snow. And more drag, from cutting the crust with the tailwheel.

4) At times a tail ski can assist in turning around in tight spots. Again, this becomes an exercise in power vs pitch to get turned around, and mis application of controls will hamper the process, rather than help it.

I'm a fan of tail skis, in case you hadn't noticed.

Now, that said, in the five winters I've lived in northern Minnesota, I have seen very little need for a tailski, because there has been either very little snow or snow so rough you wouldn't want to land in it anyway.

So, largely, this depends on what kind of snow you're apt to encounter.

MTV

 

[mike mcs repair]

fwiw...

if you have a tail clean out pan make sure front lip seals really well, like atlees.

so it don't turn into a big snow scoop and pack full the aft fuselage, if you are in soft or no tail ski...