Supercub.org Community PA-18A Project

[dave]

N2359P is a 1955 PA-18A project that Wayne Mackey Jr. will start rebuilding this November. It will be a complete rebuild/restoration with the idea of creating a sound, simple and light (certified) Supercub. We are asking interested members to provide any comments, suggestions, and/or criticism during the process. This will be your opportunity to weigh in and help jointly create a quality Supercub. We hope to keep the thread updated with a progress summary as well as construction photos. No doubt we will be looking for parts and components along the way. Wayne will provide a list of things we are looking for (we already know we need an engine). We will also post a list of the modifications and features as they are decided upon. Wayne believes it will be flying sometime this spring. If it is ready by mid June we will fly it to Johnson Creek for all to inspect. No Lou, it will not be a raffle item. The Cub will likely be sold some time next summer. Let's have some fun with this.

Current condition of 2359P below:

 

[schnell49]

anybody know the difference in using stewarts system as opposed to the standard? my buddy is redoing his cub and the gal in fairbanks told him-he can't remember exacts but it was either 12lbs per wing or 18lbs total lighter....

if that is even close to true it looks like you could save at least 20lbs for the whole plane......and so clean to work with...

i should have my new ones on soon, i'll let ya know.

 

[SteveE]

Dave,, Pierce found a lot of corrosion in my A model frame. Ended up buying a new frame, but as good as welders as they are, I would have the Mackeys whack a tube or two in half to find out if there is a problem inside. Wayne can fix it an about 2 seconds.......

 

[dave]

Stewarts System 12lbs per wing or 18lbs total lighter....

It would be interesting to know if there is a significant weight difference.

 

[Iflylower]

Wow, great idea. Can't wait to see it progress. I'm sure you won't be short of opinions on this build. Pretty cool to have this a Bill Rusk's lightweight cub coming together at the same time. Certified will keep you somewhat boxed-in on clever improvements. Maybe a long list of 337's?

Cal

 

[Fortysix12]

Aerosport 180HP, MT constant speed. Make up weight with power, it's the American way. 48 gallons Fuel with electric gauges. Belly Pod extended baggage.gross weight increase a must. Float fittings. Clevelands with boosters. 1994 Munci aviation Panel.

 

[Bill Rusk]

Forget the constant speed prop. You won't get the "out of the hole" performance because the prop is too short ie no 74 inch prop will out pull an 84 incher, and you won't get the top end speed because of the drag from a fat airfoil, uncovered gear, 31's, wing struts, pods etc. Plus you are adding 10K and 20 pounds. Just not worth it in my OPINION.

Bill

 

[aktango58]

Good time to discuss simple stuff like mag switches...

I like individual switches for each mag, with the starter on a different switch. The starter on a different switch keeps from grinding the starter in a mag check, and also is more positive for using the starter. The switches should be up in plain site, not near the trim wheel where a sleeve can hook it.

I like the starter switch on the right, away from the throttle, so one hand can be on the throttle, the other on the starter; being able to push in the primer while pushing the starter is a good thing also...

Dave, What parts might you need? header tanks? brake masters?? I seem to have a bunch of parts since I am in rebuilt with the plane apart. Bought a bunch of stuff thinking I was going to keep it flying to the end, and now have two of some stuff.

And yes, keep the headers so you don't pop the tanks working low fuel.

 

[dalec]

Under Seat Battery, key switch with mags on the right side, carb and cabin heat controls in the panel, electrical all moved to the panel from the wing root ( I still need to do some of this), seat belt attach point on the floor, shoulder harnesses off the x-braces, extended baggage, the list goes on forever.....

 

[aktango58]

remember to put your seat belt attach points above the floor in front, and above the seat in back so that you can put the belt on with out losing nuts every time

I hate key switches... to each his own! The rest of what Dale says!

 

[swoeric]

Imn a fan of the toggle switches for mags. these can be wired so that the starter will only engage when only the left mag is activated and not if both mags are on. i also like the 2-7 or 2-10 switches to team stuff like strobes and nav on same switch but keep separate power to them..also looking into breaker switches to clean stuff up. while at it led lighting all round.

 

[kase]

Heres a before picture.

 

[jr.hammack]

dave & wayne,
you are using 3/8'' tubing for your upper stinger's,and might already know that in doing so you loose some height from the oridginal alum.stringer,which moves the sidewall in and jack screw crosstube assy. will be futher out of the inspection plate.


jr.

 

[Bugs66]

Very cool Dave! Will be great to watch progress. Personally I'd get rid of the header tanks. More weight and complexity. No fuel tanks in cockpit. Where's all the CC Top Cubs and Carbon Cubs falling out of the sky with headerless? Mine has been 100% reliable.

 

[dave]

Wayne and I will be working together on this. Since he rarely (if ever) posts here, I suspect his feedback will be verbal. Wayne said he'll build whatever we want, we just need to let him know. I have some initial feedback on these early posts.

Aerosport 180HP, MT constant speed. $$$$
48 gallons Fuel with electric gauges. $$ and ##
Belly Pod - new owner can bolt on a belly pod if they want one
Extended baggage - Yep
Gross weight increase a must - under consideration
Float fittings - What do you think Wayne
Clevelands with boosters. Yep
31's - Yep
1994 Munci aviation Panel. I Googled it ?????
uncovered gear - Yep
keep the headers - likely
individual switches for each mag, with the starter on a different switch. - agreed
The switches should be up in plain site, not near the trim wheel where a sleeve can hook it. - Yep
I like the starter switch on the right, away from the throttle, - agree
being able to push in the primer while pushing the starter is a good thing also... - Yep
All electrical out of the wing roots - Top priority

Dave, What parts might you need? header tanks? brake masters?? I seem to have a bunch of parts since I am in rebuilt with the plane apart. Bought a bunch of stuff thinking I was going to keep it flying to the end, and now have two of some stuff. - I will post a list once Wayne gets it to me.

Seat belt attach points above the floor in front, and above the seat in back - Yep

I'm a fan of the toggle switches for mags. these can be wired so that the starter will only engage when only the left mag is activated and not if both mags are on. i also like the 2-7 or 2-10 switches to team stuff like strobes and nav on same switch but keep separate power to them..also looking into breaker switches to clean stuff up. while at it led lighting all round. - Wayne, what do you think?

 

[skywagon8a]

LED light mounted next to starter switch and wired to the starter side of the starter solenoid. This will warn you if the starter solenoid failed in the engaged position.

 

[Fortysix12]

Bill,

check this out.

http://www.propilotsinc.com/faq.html#two

 

[dave]

Very cool Dave! Will be great to watch progress. Personally I'd get rid of the header tanks. More weight and complexity. No fuel tanks in cockpit. Where's all the CC Top Cubs and Carbon Cubs falling out of the sky with headerless? Mine has been 100% reliable.

You make a good point... any other comments on the headerless system. Does anyone have a CC fuel valve they are not using?

 

[behindpropellers]

Dave,

Ill offer up design & fabrication of the panel. Here is a C340 panel I cut recently.

 

[Bugs66]

You make a good point... any other comments on the headerless system. Does anyone have a CC fuel valve they are not using?

Also it is VERY nice to have more room behind your panel.

Panel suggestions, put radios on left side (or center). Don't make the panel go below the mounting lugs. Keep toggle switches away from your knees. Vernier mixture. Fuel flow is really nice.

Where do we send donated parts (good parts, not junk)? Address?

 

[dave]

Dave,

Ill off up design & fabrication of the panel. Here is a C340 panel I cut recently.

You just got the job my man... we'll start the panel design on this thread in the next couple of days.

 

[mvivion]

Forget the constant speed prop. You won't get the "out of the hole" performance because the prop is too short ie no 74 inch prop will out pull an 84 incher, and you won't get the top end speed because of the drag from a fat airfoil, uncovered gear, 31's, wing struts, pods etc. Plus you are adding 10K and 20 pounds. Just not worth it in my OPINION.

Bill

Bill, MTV-15 prop = 83.5 inch diameter. Pulls HARD out of the hole, because it allows the engine to spool up to max rpm (which is where that engine makes max power). Weight is only slightly heavier than a pawnee prop if not the same.

But, as da man says: $$$$

If it were me, I too would stick with a fixed pitch prop on a Cub, but for different reasons.

Do you NEED lights? Like ANY lights? I'm always amazed at all the multiple landing lights/position lights/instrument lights on airplanes that NEVER fly after sunset. I know, I know--lighting provides visibility/recognition. But, again, just how effective is lighting, particularly strobes and even landing lights for recognition during daylight?

Folding front seat back is MANDATORY, in my opinion. Removable rear seat and removable rear cross tube is also.

Rear seat heat and windshield defrost. Seems like this would be a big "Duh!" but look at the manufacturers: CC and Aviat neither have these stock. In this light, use a Scout or early 172 exhaust pipe "heat robber" for your carb heat, and use the WHOLE muffler shroud for cabin/windshield heat. Common AK mod.

Under rear seat stowage for "stuff", like a few tools, etc. Keeps stuff from floating around.

Tabs welded just aft of front seat, high and low, for attachment of cargo net. Some of that stuff you carry around in the baggage might leave a mark on your head in an accident. One of the most common things I've seen left out of Cubs and most other airplanes is a good attach point to hook up a cargo tiedown.

If it were for me, I'd have NO rear controls. I wouldn't want it for training. Lots of training airplanes available. Keep it light, simple, and the person in the back has more room. If there ever is anyone in back.

Remove the vertical post on the left side window forward of the throttle that the forward sliding window slides into. Extend the front sliding window up to the windshield post. Near as I can tell, that left vertical post is not structural, and it's mostly in the way. Remove, and better visibility, and a GREAT place from which to shoot photos.....ask Russ Munson, photog for Flying magazine. This style window has become standard on the Husky, since Russ asked them to make him one. It's really amazing how nice it is.

MTV

 

[Fortysix12]

More fresh air blast for the pilot,ability to mix,and definity heat mixed to the rear. The ability to keep the rear seat warm with about bar b queing the pilot. ah the little things in life. I love my autopilot I dont' care what anybody says. Map holder a must.

Dave, the panel by Muncie.

I'm not saying load it up as this one but, the expansion and layout is the best I"ve found. I actually reduced the bottom tray on mine to use the slim line (1.25) instead of the KX155(2in).

 

[spinner2]

Dave,

Ill offer up design & fabrication of the panel. Here is a C340 panel I cut recently.

Is that just a piece of wood your aluminum is screwed to? Looks like a nice simple setup for milling out a panel. I've made a few and holding it down and in place during machining is the hard part. That Haas mill looks very familiar too.

 

[Dave Calkins]

Just for fun....have you considered a STOCK CUB?

..maybe add a Randy Apling Carbon Fiber baggage compartment and move the electrics out of the wing root and call it done.




edited to add: enough guys have built up heavy, 'gentlemans' Cubs lately. How 'bout trying a stocker with a couple of safety mods like topdeck X, and HD gear. but leave the rest mostly stock.

 

[behindpropellers]

That one is screwed down to MDF but now I have a piece of tooling plate I use along with permacel P02 tape which works pretty slick.

 

[kevin]

Also it is VERY nice to have more room behind your panel.

Panel suggestions, put radios on left side (or center). Don't make the panel go below the mounting lugs. Keep toggle switches away from your knees. Vernier mixture. Fuel flow is really nice.

Where do we send donated parts (good parts, not junk)? Address?

Hi Dave,

I like those Becker Radios. I think I saw that in yours. I know that they are pricey though. I also like the idea of a vernier mixture. The seat belt to the floor is a must. Straight up a safety factor. I think I saw that in yours too.

Looking forward to seeing this one come together.

 

[Dave Calkins]

Radio and Transponder in the panel, for sure. Keep that "easy to get in and strap on" feeling of a simple Cub.

Becker offers a Transponder too...$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[dave]

I like the Becker radio and transponder setup for all the reasons mentioned above. They have been reliable in the two years I have used them and they definately fit nicely in a cub panel. I'd say they are a priority if we can swing it.

 

[dave]

MTV - Lots of good input... thank you. I'm calling Wayne shortly and will share his thoughts/responses later tonight.