Supercub "crashworthiness" improvements

[ground loop]

It is ironic, that on a supercub website, that there are two current threads that are speaking about topics that are trying to turn the cub into a Husky.

 

[cubdrvr]

Uh...uh...uh....
That would be like trying to turn a Harley into a Honda..... 8)

 

[R. JOHNSON]

Right on, Cubdrvr!

 

[Dave Calkins]

Further rant and rave fodder:

I don't agree that the Husky/Cub-Honda/Harley analogy is a good one.

The Cub and Husky are different tools for a different "job" or "performance range".

The Harley/Honda thing is like comparing shiny junk to a technologically superior knock-off that outperforms it in every category except the categories of "made in USA" and "I'm a 'real' biker' ".

Obviously, I'm not a fan of HD. I do like that it's US made. If you like 'em because...........well, why do you like them? Something about "the chicks dig 'em"?

My chick has a Honda dirt bike and a Yamaha cruiser. I dig her! She'll have a Honda cruiser next spring. I don't spend every weekend working on them. Our motorcycle collection is NOT an investment. I also am NOT trying to impress the local Anchorage Yuppies. Did I mention that I dig my chick? Or that I don't work on her "junk" every weekend?

Sure, another thread for this.

Mike V. is correct, though. The Husky frame was designed to a different standard than the Cub was designed to.

Accepting the risk of flying a Cub, and adding 15 pounds of 4130 in order to spread some load paths will NOT, however put you at the weight of a Husky. Still, I understand the point toward which Mike V. is leaning.

 

[Bill Rusk]

Your best chance for crash survival is to go in wings level, straight ahead. Your body can take a lot of G force straight through the chest, assuming shoulder harnesses. If you cartwheel, spin, flip, etc. your probably going to die. The body can take very limited side force and extremely limited vertical forces (ie up the spine). If you were sitting in a chair and it was dropped from 8 to ten feet it would drive your spine right into your brain. Lots of injuries in the F-111 during ejections due to the capsule landing with a fair vertical velocity and the pilot and Nav sitting upright in their seats.
The fact that Steve hit very vertically, even w/o shoulder harnesses probably contributed to his survival. I used to teach my multi engine students that the best action w/ an engine failure after T.O. was to pull the other engine to idle and go in straight ahead wings level. Much better than any type of stall spin impact

As Bob Hoover says " fly it as far into the crash as you can".

Bill
USAF Safety school grad

 

[Wayne Mackey]

safety

One thing I haven't noticed being brought out is the ability to tie down the bagage in
a safe maner. Freind cleaned off both gear on pa12 on take off. 270 rem. was in
fishing pole tube and split open his head as it came forward and out the windsheald.
Two other freinds had full fuel can and mics. things work them over.
It is unreal what 5 0r 10 lbs. can do witha sudden stop. Also have had load breaking things in rough air my self. My point tie down your load good! Wayne

PS Moose went air born and came down on top of rear control stub stick TTThat
was interesting.

 

[Ursa Major]

Re: safety

One thing I haven't noticed being brought out is the ability to tie down the bagage in
a safe maner. Freind cleaned off both gear on pa12 on take off. 270 rem. was in
fishing pole tube and split open his head as it came forward and out the windsheald.
Two other freinds had full fuel can and mics. things work them over.
It is unreal what 5 0r 10 lbs. can do witha sudden stop. Also have had load breaking things in rough air my self. My point tie down your load good! Wayne

PS Moose went air born and came down on top of rear control stub stick TTThat
was interesting.

Real good point on tying gear down. I once had an empty 12 gauge shell get stuck between the floor board and rear stick stub. Provided some real excitement for a bit until the guy in back was able to fish it out. Now I use Atlee's rear stick cover if I'm by myself. (also clean out all the loose junk that might find an inconvenient place to lodge)

 

[mvivion]

And, it doesn't even have to be that big. I once had a pencil, dropped by the knob in the back seat, fall to the floor, then slide off the rear end of the floor, then work it's way forward to join the pile of junk in the belly, which finally jammed the ailerons, in a 45 degree bank turn, very close to very cold water.

We took about four pounds of pencils and other junk out of the belly of that Cub.

I then attached a piece of 1/2 inch aluminum angle to the top rear edge of the floorboards, to catch the junk before it fell into the belly.

Good advice, Wayne. I tumbled a 185 in the mountains after the crank broke, and had six five gallon metal cans in the back. As I was preparing to land, I sure thought a lot about whether or not I'd tied those things down well enough. Fortunately, I had.

Cargo nets, lots of tiedown points, cargo straps, and so forth ought to be high on everyone's list.

MTV

 

[cubdrvr]

Excellent posts guys.............I have tie downs on the floorboards of my A model. This works well for support during turbulence but I never gave much thought to how much it would hold in an accident....not much I think.
How are your tie downs attached ?

 

[K.S.]

How 'bout some ideas for cargo nets and tie down points. The removable seat back won't slow things down much!!!

 

[bobnall]

Agreed, K.S. Since I'm rebuilding and have been thinking about how to properly and safely secure stored items, what is the best method for tying/strapping down cargo. Is there something out there that defines what is the right way to do it?

-Bob

 

[tdh]

F.Atlee has a cargo net with attach hardware (which requires some welding) and instructions for a PA18. I am in the midst of installing one now. M. Vivion makes an excellent point that applies to anything you pilot/drive. Many unnecessary injuries are also caused by loose items hitting occupants in vehicles. How much junk do you have in the back seat or rear window of your car?

 

[Dave Calkins]

Do fuzzy animals count?

 

[AkPA/18]

New article about crashes and loose items and people in cars.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/ne...&st=frontpagecar_crash_dangers_040124&src=abc

 

[djfraudman]

If you are rebuilding, weld some tabs where they will be flush with the floorboards, fit up the floorboards and drill holes through the floorboards and tabs. Put nut plates on the tabs and when you put the plane back together you can put the tiedowns in. You can see my upper tiedowns in this photo http://www.supercub.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=aba I also have them in the corners right behind the seat and on the floor ahead of the rear seat. I think this photo shows the placement of the ones ahead of the rear seat. http://www.supercub.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=abb

 

[cubpilot2]

This is update on the additional diagonal tubing installation in the front bulkhead. On Jan 13 I made a post stating that the FAA had come to the "consensus" that this can be done as a minor change, and could be done with a log book entry. (this was by phone). I then asked for a written reply to that effect. (so I could attach it to the records) I was told that this was not a problem. I have been out of town for about 3 weeks and didn't get this response (letter). Today I got a call from my FAA friend and he said that they had "changed their thinking", and would do this by a field approval...... I asked what the caused the change and the response was that he was getting too many differing opinions. "It depended on who you talked to or what time of day it was". Guess asking for a "written reply" forced a little more thought on their part.
Anyway I now have the field approved 337 in hand. If anyone needs a copy of this to get theirs approved then PM me.