smaller, lighter, suggestions on panel stuffs

[cubunltd]

To each his own. I'm 5'7" and dont have a problem with visibility with the squared panel even in off airport landings. I do have a thicker than normal seat cushion though. i guess it's what your used to. I do however agree with too much instrumentation. I believe in the minimums, however you do have to build the aircraft to suite your customer. I have done several fish spotter aircraft and most of them do use encrypted devices. There was an outfitt in canada that made an electronic device that routed all the aircraft and marine radios through an audio panel and through the aircraft headset. worked very well.

John

 

[Aviator]

True enough: There's always the operational exception. Charlie Lindbergh didn't need to see out the front of his Ryan NYP at all, but even he wouldn't fly his mail runs with a gas tank where his wind shield is supposed to be.

Seat height is usually adjusted - where adjustable - to bring the top of the instrument panel lined up with the bottom of the wind shield for all operations in VMC. Boeing did that with 3 balls in the center windshield post. Seats can be lowered during IMC to reduce parallax errors, especially on deep 3D horizon gyros. Yes, those were the days of pilot-friendly truly intuitive "wings of gold" instruments, before they were replaced by today's "wings of LED."

 

[docstory]

An audio panel is an excellent solution. You still have to mount the radios somewhere and its best to be able to operate them independently of the panel, just in case. The traffic up there is ridiculous when fish spotting. It's amazing, and testimony to pilot skill, that more accidents don't occur.

 

[8GCBC]

There is a genius in Kona that can wire anything thru a headset. He can flush his toilet with a cellphone!

 

[aktango58]

I have a 2 meter and the A-200. A very small toggle selects which one I talk through. I can turn the volume to decide what I hear.

I think I will be using everyone's suggestions, just combined to make the most excellent pannel.

I got a set of crimpers today, looks like I owe a beer or ten... (note to self, talke Nimpo Logan fishing)


So I plan on using MTV's suggestions on the slip skid ball and compass; small indicator top center, compas up high. Then I will put a 2.5 electric tac and airspeed and oil pressure/temp- electric and lite. I will keep the big heavy altimeter to save the 4k, but I really think i will talk to B&C about their warning light on power. I can use a multi meter to tell me what is wrong, the light will say discharge which is all I need for flight. If not charging, recycle then shut it all down. simple.

To replace the RC allen POS AI, VSI and T&B I will velcro on the dynon to the dash. It is temporary so no approval needed.

I love the reostat twist switch for nav/strobe/interior light. Plan to put Aeroflash strobes on and remove the rotating beacon and existing cub lights; smaller switch needed, smaller wire, less power. Instead of the toggle, I think I will keep the key switch for mags.

Breaker switches for power to fuel tank, strobes, radio master, and other stuff.

Pannel is getting lighter and less cluttered!


Thoughts?

 

[8GCBC]

What's interesting is now after years of dreaming and flying....

The panel is actually a dynamic operation. Amphibs, hydraulic skis, marine radios, sat phone, ADS-B, 12 volt receptacles, iPADs, auxiliary GPS, hand held radio (marine, airband) requires quick and immediate changes during the year.
Be ready to change a panel in short notice, sign it off and go bro!

 

[OLDCROWE]

George,

I'm thinking about keeping the big airspeed and altimeter and likely all else small (tac, oil, fuel mgt, cylinder temp) and saving my electric skid steer for another bird. My whiskey compass is a boozer anyway so the remote is a good plan at the cost of sending it to rehab. Been looking at the tiny radios and thinking Trig. but not sure... Looking for feedback. Also with the ADS-B on the horizon and since I operate in Class D (reminds me of High School) I'll likely get it overwith and be ready for B out.

Kirby

 

[sierra bravo]

I've been on the fence about glass panels but the one George Mandes shows us in this thread would suit me fine. In fact it may be the template for my next airplane panel.
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?42184-Carbon-Cub-speed&highlight=carbon+cub+speed

 

[aktango58]

Kirby,

for my flying, I have a Garmin 96. Yes a 96, hand held moving map, color, simple no frills GPS. I have flown the 296, 496 and others, but for me I find that the little one is just fine. I have little airspace worry, and weather here is not going to be helped by the quick updates. The radar does not read my area.

A full glass pannel is heavier than the little stuff, so I am going to forgo that option. I also am worried that it will not hold up to the abuse around here. If these little electric go out on me, I can change easy; a glass pannel needs quite an avionics guy to fix.


SB, I keep reminding myself your words: What is your mission. Good ones to live by!

 

[OLDCROWE]

George,

I'm definitely not going glass (my Okie brain won't process the tape thing for speed, alt, etc.) but I do like some of the features the new gps units bring to the table, like immediate accurate digital vertical speed and navigation display over the map page and such.

Be careful counting on that 96 for too much longer as many of the older units won't track the newer satellites and the older ones are going dark and before long they won't have a valid almanac and will be dead. Along that line my original Lowrance is now a door stop.

Kirby

 

[aktango58]

just cloud up on my parade Kirby!

Next you will be telling me you and Eaton are not coming to Alaska for a fishing trip.


Seriously, never thought about the satalite deal... hmmm. Well, run it until I can not anymore...

 

[8GCBC]

A Garmin 96 is going to need a firmware upgrade! Be careful.

 

[OLDCROWE]

just cloud up on my parade Kirby!

What can I say, it's the little things that make life enjoyable!

 

[aktango58]

I think I have a layout. Some good info in 'Dave's' stuff, but some new stuff out now also.

I think I have a layout that will be even better using the Dynon and getting rid of a bunch of stuff, and it is legal with no sign off because it is not 'installed'.

I am now trying to do a takeoff on wire to order up my wire. I like the drop out sub panel for breakers and switches, but we still have radios and such that may need attention.

What about installing the entire panel to be removable? There are only a couple of 'hard' spots to connect the panel on each side, then it attaches to the boot cowl; I am thinking about building little brackets and having the panel attach to four brackets along the top that come down from the glare shield.

Take out six screws and the entire panel comes off and slides forward.

Most of the wires remain between the instruments, radios and the switches/breakers. The airspeed tube, starter, alternator, antenna wires, couple sending unit wires and light wires will have to be long enough to slide the dash out or down.

Thoughts?

Or should I be asking how much work you think the radios might need in the future?

 

[spinner2]

What about installing the entire panel to be removable? There are only a couple of 'hard' spots to connect the panel on each side, then it attaches to the boot cowl; I am thinking about building little brackets and having the panel attach to four brackets along the top that come down from the glare shield.

Take out six screws and the entire panel comes off and slides forward.

Thoughts?

George, on a Cub the panel supports the boot cowl not the other way around. I think it would problematic to try and slide the panel away from the boot cowl to gain access and then easily slide it back into position. Keeping the switches and breakers low on the panel with or without a sub panel is best in my opinion.




This was the panel I made for my -18 when I had it.

 

[skywagon8a]

George, on a Cub the panel supports the boot cowl not the other way around.

And the boot supports the windshield.

 

[Mush]

If anyone doing these panel conversions has a stock mph airspeed indicator they want to get rid of send me a PM.

 

[aktango58]

If anyone doing these panel conversions has a stock mph airspeed indicator they want to get rid of send me a PM.

I don't know how stock is stock, but mine is going...

You want it?

 

[aktango58]

If anyone doing these panel conversions has a stock mph airspeed indicator they want to get rid of send me a PM.

I don't know how stock is stock, but mine is going...

You want it?

Now Dan, you have 'dashed' my hopes with good thoughts...

Better than I get from RED River buddies with red and white (still flying) cubs...

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Crash]

Hi Ak Tango

I would go 2 1/4" instruments instead of 3 1/8". Winter instruments offer a cool 2 1/4"airspeed with 510 degree rotation and large spacing at lower airspeeds. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/airspeedindicators_0browse/winterasi.php

Cumulus Soaring has a very nice Winter altimeter. http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter/4555.jpg

For the engine instruments I'd go EI for tach and oil pressure / temp (combo). http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/R-1/R-1_Overview.html http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/OPT-1/OPT-1_Overview.html

Drop turn and bank and go with a curved slip indicator. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/inclinometer/winterslipindicator.php

For electrical output, Garmin GPS models 296, 396, 495, 496, and Aera series allow you to designate one of the fields as voltage. Also Becker comms also have a voltage display.

As far as a panel I'd look at The Cub Doctor for a blank to start with. I've hand made them with a shrinker but the time involved is way more then just buying one. http://www.cubdoctor.com/assets/specialties/pages/panels.htm

This is about as simple and light as you can get it.

Take care,

Crash

 

[Crash]

I forgot the compass. Might think about getting it out of the panel.... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/Nav2400Campus.php

Crash

 

[Darrel Starr]

I have a friend who had a panel custom made. It was laser cut and trial installed. My friend is tall and could not fit his legs under the panel. The problem was that the distance from the two mounting screws to the bottom was, as I recall, 2.5 inches. They remade the panel and raised the lower edge, an expensive lesson. I believe he ended up very close to the same distance as my panel, 1.75 inches from the screws to the lower edge. I consider that dimension, 1.75 inches, to be one of those Cardinal Rule numbers that should not be violated. Work it out for yourself but be careful with where you locate the bottom edge.

 

[spinner2]

Hi Ak Tango
As far as a panel I'd look at The Cub Doctor for a blank to start with. I've hand made them with a shrinker but the time involved is way more then just buying one. http://www.cubdoctor.com/assets/specialties/pages/panels.htm

This is about as simple and light as you can get it.

Take care,

Crash

Univair sells a blank panel too. That's what I used. As I remember it was around $50. I cut it out on the mill.

 

[aktango58]

Crash, Dan, Darrel,

Thank you, great information.

I was going to mostly the 2 1/4 gauges, but the altimeter is a good find. I was seeing 3k for them elsewhere.

With that change, I have room for my big GPS right on the side between the mixture and the gauges. I will get a picture posted today of my mockup; it is old school so if any of you 'puter' wiz kids want to do it electronic for me go ahead.

Looking more at the drop out stuff, but the reality is that I have the boot cowl screwed together and can access through the sides, so I think I will show some intelligence and copy the drop out electric bus/switch panel.

Any chance you can take some closeups of your attachment Darrel?

Quick disconnect question on radios: Any reason the radio trays need to be easily removable? seems when they come out it is major anyway, and we can get to the back through the sides.

Continued thanks to all for your help and thoughts.

George

 

[spinner2]

Crash, Dan, Darrel,

Thank you, great information.

I was going to mostly the 2 1/4 gauges, but the altimeter is a good find. I was seeing 3k for them

Quick disconnect question on radios: Any reason the radio trays need to be easily removable? seems when they come out it is major anyway, and we can get to the back through the sides.

Continued thanks to all for your help and thoughts.

George

If you go with a little 2 1/4" dia radio like a Becker there is no tray. Just four #6 screws holding from the front side of the panel. On the back of the radio there is a QD connector for wires and a BNC connector for the coax.

 

[Darrel Starr]

George, is this what you are looking for? Some of the "in process" photos are not the final version -- I had three panels laser cut before I got the layout quite the way I wanted it. All this despite drawing the panel on AutoCad, having a full size paper copy printed and gluing that to a piece of Masonite to see how it looked.

 

[ER Upgrade]

Nice work Darrel. Thanks for the ideas.
Dwayne

 

[Darrel Starr]

Anytime, Dwayne.

 

[aktango58]

How are you attaching the dash to the glare shield, and how is the switch pannel attaching to the dash?

Thanks for the posting. I like your ideas

 

[Darrel Starr]

To attach the panel to the boot cowl/glare shield, I made some right angle brackets out of 4130 steel strips I bought from Aircraft Spruce then bent, & formed to the shape I wanted. The brackets have nut plates and are bent slightly for rigidity. once formed, they were bead blasted and Cadmium plated.





The Glare shield fits over the boot cowl and has a 1/8 inch diameter piece of welding rod embedded in the leading edge. Then the piece of aluminum glare shield was bent to match the curvature of the boot cowl. I was able to trap the welding rod in place but had to finish "rolling" in place with a hammer and block. Since some hammer marks remained, I had it powder coated with a Wrinkle finish.

The switch panel is two pieces flush riveted together so a flange is formed to fit up behind the back of the panel. Here is a picture of the bare metal switch panel that might be clearer. The back plate is bent back top and bottom for stiffness and has nut plates so the screws through the panel fit into them. The front plate was laser cut in a nesting with the panel and intercom panel. The laser amazingly cut everything including the screw holes (within .004 inches on the diameter - impressive).