SkyyHunter 406 Q&A from Pointer Avionics Staff

[Pointeravionics]

Hello Everyone!

Just thought we might start a Questions and Answers thread to answer a few questions about our new SkyyHunter 406 ELT.

The following are answers to GPS questions that were raised in a discussion within this forum:

-If there is GPS data available at the time of the crash then that information will be transmitted with the first 406 burst (within 50 seconds). In order to have GPS data available you would have to either have an external GPS antenna (additional cost) for the GPS receiver inside the ELT or feed the data from a NAV interface (not enabled with initial release of units, will be accessible with a firmware upgrade in a future TSO). If you use the internal receiver you will need to supply aircraft power from the power bus via the remote connector.

-The external GPS antenna should be Active with minimum 20 db gain and 5 V, we have researched an economical antenna that meets these specs, AV-GPS by RAMI www.rami.com .

Please feel free to ask questions through this forum or contact us directly at 519.648.3778 or sales@pointeravionics.com

Regards,
Staff at Pointer Avionics

 

[StewartB]

Thank you for participating. I have some questions.

1) Is your Skyhunter 406 TSO'd at this time? Does the TSO address the GPS interaction whether internal or external w/ interface?

2) Assuming a 406 ELT without GPS, does the beacon location accuracy improve with time or is the satellite array capable of identifying location from the initial "hits" from the ELT?

Thanks again.

Stewart

 

[fobjob]

Your wording suggests that the first 406 burst is not at the moment of impact activation...??

 

[mike mcs repair]

In order to have GPS data available you would have to either have an external GPS antenna (additional cost)

-The external GPS antenna should be Active with minimum 20 db gain and 5 V, we have researched an economical antenna that meets these specs, AV-GPS by RAMI www.rami.com .

dumb question for all....
can you share/split into just ONE external gps antenna?

since I "Assume" they just receive(gps signal)? (so having your in dash gps and the elt share an external antenna?? or multiple gps's on one antenna)

 

[fobjob]

The "active" antenna means it has an amplifier in it, powered by the gps running voltage up the coax to the amp, and rf back from the antenna ....so, you could probably run several gps's with one antenna ...IF the gps's provided the same voltage with the same polarity....not something to recommend...there are other issues, too....like impedance matching.... :-?

 

[NimpoCub]

From what I have "learned" so far is that if your ELT transmits your down location GPS co'ords, the search area is reduced from something like 30 sq.kilometers to 3. I think that sounds like a GoodThing.

An ELT with internal GPS needs aircraft power to keep it alive. Makes sense. An extra antenna is required for most units ($120-$170) The extra box to add YOUR GPS input to the ELT runs an EXTRA $1500-$2000.

The pointer Skyyhunter, @ $950 has internal GPS, powered from the remote switch, transmits your down location co-ords on the first burst (not immediately maybe, but right away) and comes with the ELT antenna, but you need a GPS rx antenna if you want to use that feature.

I ask again, what's not to like? Why aren't the rest of you excited about this?? Hey, I have no Pointer stock, but is this not the standout only choice?? I sure don't want to spend a grand & only get another beeper on a diff. freq.

Here is the email I got back from Kannad (copy/pasted):

Maxcraft is the distributor of Kannad products in Canada.
Attached are brochures of Kannad products, both for fixed and rotary wing.
If you are looking for GPS interface, which is a separate box, it would work with all the units except for 406AF-Compact.
If you are flying a general aviation light aircraft and not concerned with the GPS interface option, I would suggest going with the Compact unit.
406AF-Compact package is priced at Can $875.00. Includes ELT, mounting bracket, remote switch and connectors for ELT and remote switch.
ANT200 which is a 250 knot whip antenna, is priced at Can $120.00.
All Kannad products are self contained systems with no outside aircraft power required, unless you are installing the GPS nav interface that needs power (additional circuit breaker), ground and the GPS inputs from your existing unit.
Currently, 121.5 MHz ELTs have a search parameter of 1230 kilometers square.
406 MHz ELTs narrow down the search area to 28 square kilometers.
406 MHz ELTs with GPS interface narrows the search to about a 3 square kilometer area.
Every ELT other than the Compact unit are designed for operators/airliners with price range between $2200.00 to $2500.00 with all the other equipment including: antenna, mounting
bracket, remote switch and connectors running in at about $750.00 more.
Nav interface is priced between $1650.00 and $2000.00.
Every ELT requires programming to the particular aircraft it would be installed in. Programming is done in house at Maxcraft at $49.00 per unit.
Please contact me if you have further questions or concerns.
Best regards,

Alex Khavin
Maxcraft Avionics Ltd
4360 Agar Drive
Richmond, BC
V7B 1A3 Canada
ph 604-270-3080 ext 222
fax 604-270-3084

 

[Gordon Misch]

Dunno about "excited", Logan, but surely interested - I've been following your research results carefully, cuz I too will need to purchase an ELT before too long. Please keep posting your findings, and let us know what you decide on - and why!

 

[Alaska_Rallyer]

How much money does the battery cost. How often do i have to replace it?

 

[NimpoCub]

Batts for all the units seem to be pretty much the same... last 6 yrs, unless of course you use 'em, then they transmit steady for 24-48 hrs, depending mainly on the OAT.

 

[Pointeravionics]

Answers to your questions

Hello Again Everyone,

We will be answering the questions in this forum on a weekly basis(Friday), and so feel free to ask any questions you might have and we will try to answer as thoroughly as possible.

Below are some of your questions from last week followed by the answers.

Q) Is your Skyhunter 406 TSO'd at this time? Does the TSO address the GPS interaction whether internal or external w/ interface?

A) No our transmitter does not yet have approval but the testing is going well and we expect the FAA approval by the end of 2008 followed by the TC approval in early 2009. The unit does incorporate both the use of internal GPS and NAV interface; however the firmware for the NAV interface will not be completed in time for the release. This firmware will be offered as a free upgrade when it becomes available (maybe at inspection time)

Q) Assuming a 406 ELT without GPS, does the beacon location accuracy improve with time or is the satellite array capable of identifying location from the initial "hits" from the ELT?

A) It is my understanding is that the accuracy will not improve as time passes although I suppose there may be conditions such as geographical obstacles, aircraft orientation, and satellite position that may affect the ability for any ELT system to operate optimally. These conditions may improve as time passes!

Q) Your wording suggests that the first 406 burst is not at the moment of impact activation...??

A) Yes that is true the 406 signal will not be transmitted at the moment of impact and may be delayed by up to 50 seconds as is the case with all 406MHZ ELT's. I dont know exactly why this is done but it may simply be to allow a person the opportunity to turn the unit off, in the case of a false activation, before alerting SAR. Upon impact/activation the unit will immediately send out the 121.5 MHZ beacon but because the satellites will not monitor this signal the SAR teams will not be deployed which is a good thing in the case of accidental activations that may only last 20-30 seconds.

Q) Can you share/split into just ONE external gps antenna?

A) The short answer to this question is NO! The longer and more complicated answer would be that it is possible provided that the devices require the same antenna type/specs. In addition to the antenna type there would likely also need to be an impedance matching network to compensate for the load and cable length differences. If one was persistent enough to overcome the previous problems then they would also have to have the modifications approved by the FAA/TC.

Q) How much money does the battery cost? How often do I have to replace it?

A) The battery packs will be about $150.00 USD and will require replacement every 5 years or 60 minutes of cumulated “on” time. Battery prices for available 406 MHZ units vary from $200.00
to $350.00 at the moment.

We hope this helps and look forward to next week.

Regards,
Pointer Avionics Staff

 

[cub_driver]

One question regarding the RAMI antenna. If I mount the RAMI GPS antenna in the back baggage area of my cub will the skyhawk be able to transmit through the fabric or would the fabric create to much interference.

How do you test the GPS function to make sure it's broadcasting? Can you test signal strength?

Cub_Driver

 

[Charlie Longley]

Most of my customers have been asking about a 406 ELT. How do I become a dealer?

 

[fobjob]

Just how does the LEO satellite doppler locate on the 406 signal, if it transmits for only one-half second every 50 seconds???
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never mind, finally found the info:
Also carried is a Search and Rescue Processor (SARP) which receives 406 MHz transmissions, provides measurements of the frequency and time, then retransmits this data in real-time and stores it aboard for later transmission. The satellite also stores each 406 MHz signal it receives and continuously downloads this data for up to 48 hours ensuring ground stations around the world receive it. That is, if the satellite was not in view of a ground station when it received a beacon signal, the next ground station that sees that satellite views will receive the data. This provides global coverage for 406 MHz distress signals. The SARR is provided by the Canadian Department of National Defence and the SARP is provided by the French Center National D'Etudes Spatiales (CNES).

This was never used on the 121.5 signals. In other words, it takes snapshots of the doppler data, and computers on the ground can calculate the actual location...
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/

 

[Steve Pierce]

Just got some info on this unit. It is now approved. Has internal GPS reciever and internal GPS antenna. No aircraft power required. Selling for about $1K.

 

[Bluebear]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a 406 ELT. Anyone have experience with the SkyyHunter 406?

 

[Steve Pierce]

I just installed one in a PA18 under rebuild. I like the fact that the GPS and GPS antenna is built in. Easy to install. I have been consulting with the manufacturer to change the installation instructions.There is a shielded 4 conductor wire from the ELT to the remote. 22 gauge wire is easy to find but doesn't fit the pins, need 24 gauge but size isn't called out. I finally found it and it is a pain for me to solder the pins at the ELT. The plug at the remote is a self crimping arrangement which took a little finagling to make contact. I think the pre-wired unit is probably the way to go. I really like the fact that everything is self contained and if you have to leave the scene you can take it with you. It has an external portable antenna that replaces the BNC connector to the external antenna. I have been mounting the external ELT antennas on the back wall of the extended baggage inside the fuselage. It is a really nicely made unit, far better made than the cheaper 406 ELTs that do not have built in GPS.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Some pictures. They made me a dealer for them as well so if you need any help let me know.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Here are some pictures of the remote and wiring.

 

[sierra bravo]

Any 406 ELT is better than any 121.5 ELT. All the 406 ELTs conform to the same TSO and share the same structural installation requirements. That being equal there's no statistical advantage of one brand over the others in performance reviews. Just get one.

 

[mvivion]

I just installed one in a PA18 under rebuild. I like the fact that the GPS and GPS antenna is built in. Easy to install. I have been consulting with the manufacturer to change the installation instructions.There is a shielded 4 conductor wire from the ELT to the remote. 22 gauge wire is easy to find but doesn't fit the pins, need 24 gauge but size isn't called out. I finally found it and it is a pain for me to solder the pins at the ELT. The plug at the remote is a self crimping arrangement which took a little finagling to make contact. I think the pre-wired unit is probably the way to go. I really like the fact that everything is self contained and if you have to leave the scene you can take it with you. It has an external portable antenna that replaces the BNC connector to the external antenna. I have been mounting the external ELT antennas on the back wall of the extended baggage inside the fuselage. It is a really nicely made unit, far better made than the cheaper 406 ELTs that do not have built in GPS.

Steve,

I assume from your description that you've mounted the GPS antenna inside the fabric skin? If that is correct, have you verified that the GPS is receiving an adequate reception through the fabric and coatings?

MTV

 

[Steve Pierce]

The GPS antenna is built into the ELT unit itself and is certified and approved for installation inside fabric covered airplanes according to the users/installation manual.

My issues with the cheaper ELT units come from the maintenance side of things when the cases crack at the fasteners holding the two halves together where the batteries install.

 

[sierra bravo]

Last I looked there was no regulatory requirement in the ELT TSO for GPS and more to the point there is no TSO standard for optional GPS accuracy or reliability. As long as the ELT operates to ELT standards they can add GPS connections or internal GPS units but there's no industry or government standard to measure these options against. I hope the Pointer folks correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know how an internal GPS can be certified to operate properly regardless of aircraft type or installed location within the aircraft. For what that's worth.

 

[Steve Pierce]

I don't know the certification standards of the 406 ELT coupled to a GPS. I just know when I posted question about this on the other thread that one of the search and rescue helicopter pilots in Alaska called and told me whatever I did to couple the ELT to the GPS and they were going to be on a rescue mission not a search. Having installed several 406 ELTs that couple to an external GPS and having to reconfigure the internal settings of those GPSs and run wires between them I like the simplicity and portability of this unit.

Some notes I gathered online for coupling the ACK unit to a Garmin portable.

This describes the GPS interface requirements for installing your new ACK 406 Mhz ELT.

I UPDATED THIS WITH TECHNICAL CHANGES on 08 July 2012:

The ACK E-04 406 MHZ ELT kit is a great value, considering it costs $1000 less than the nearest rival GPS-capable ELT. I received mine through Aircraft Spruce after waiting more than a year for its certification and delivery. Although setting up the unit to receive GPS position is NOT REQUIRED, it only makes sense to use this feature if you’re serious about getting rescued. Installation was straightforward except for one roadblock I encountered in trying to get my Garmin 496 GPS to communicate with the ELT.

To use the GPS feature, you need to run a shielded 3-conductor wire to the unit that provides DC power (protected by 1 amp fuse or circuit breaker), a ground, and the serial output from your GPS. The instruction manual describes how to connect these to the 4-pin mini-din female connector that is provided. Unless you are a neurosurgeon, soldering these small wires to the back of the plug is challenging. I simply crimped the wires to gold-plated female DB connector pins (the smaller high-density type used for radios) and slid them snuggly over the solder pins on the back of the ELT mini-din plug & used heat shrink to secure them. Double check to make sure the power, ground, and GPS signal lines are on the correct pins!

Here’s how I configured my Garmin 496 (yours will be similar)
1. Select MENU, then SETUP, then INTERFACE
2. Select Serial Data Format = “TIS In/NMEA & VHF Out”
3. Select Baud = 9600
4. While in this screen, select MENU again and select “Advanced NMEA Setup”
5. Select Output Rate = Normal/Fast
6. Select Lat/Lon Precision = 2, 3, or 4-digit precision (any will work)

The ACK ELT provides a STATUS line that indicates whether a valid GPS signal is being received by the ELT. The instruction manual has you make a little tester unit consisting of an LED, resistor, and alligator wire clips… but a small voltmeter is very useful to ensure your power leads are correct. With power provided to the unit through the mini-din connector, the STATUS line from the ELT will read approximately –5.5 volts. If a valid position is being sent, the STATUS line will give a short burst to +5 volts that is too fast for your meter to detect. The LED tester will give a very short blink every second if the ELT is recognizing a valid GPS signal. You can also view the +5 volt spike on an oscilloscope if you have one.

If you fail to get a pulse on the STATUS line, be sure your Garmin GPS is outputting data at 9600 baud. The ELT default bit rate is internally set at 9600 baud. If your Garmin GPS output data rate is other than 9600, you’ll have to take the ELT apart and jumper it to the slower rate (yikes).

Still having trouble getting a valid STAUS signal? If you have access to a laptop with Windows XP, you can run its HyperTerminal program through a serial port or adaptor and take a look at the data stream your GPS is sending. When your GPS is locked on and receiving a VALID GPS LAT/LON, the following text string will appear in the data stream (along with a lot of other data)…

$GPGGA,161907,3321.67,N,08434.25,W,1,00,3.2,221.7, M,-30.7,M,,*78

The $GPGGA tells the ACK ELT that this is a VALID lat/lon. The next values are time, latitude, N/S, longitude, E/W… and the rest of the line is ignored. The $GPGGA code must be present or else the ACK ELT will refuse to accept the data from the GPS.

You should now be transmitting a valid data stream to the ELT, provided you have GPS reception.

Hopefully, this will make your GPS/installation a little easier. By the way, my Garmin 496 data line drives four devices without any problem: my Dynon D-180 EFIS, the Garmin SL-30 comm/nav, the TruTrak autopilot, and now my ACK ELT. The RS-232 voltage/signal output from the 496 is robust enough to drive several devices.

The ACK 406 ELT is $600 and the 5 year battery is $107.
Skyhunter 406 ELT w/built in GPS $1000 and 5 year battery is $175.
I post all of this because of the recent research I have done on the units in hopes that it will hope others make an informed decision about 406 ELTs.

 

[sierra bravo]

Everyone interested in this topic should arrange a visit to the RCC or your regional equivalent to see for yourselves how these devices work in real life. Please take the time to do so.

 

[Ursa Major]

I'm considering a replacement of my 121.5 elt to a 406 unit at annual time. I've carried a personal 406 PLB unit for years and understand the utility of the 406 system.

I do have a question on the annual test process for the ELT. The Old 121.5 units were pretty simple - turn it on at the top of the hour and listen for the sound on the radio. I have heard that you cannot legally do that with the 406 units and that you will be in violation of FCC regs if you try. I also have been told that the annual inspection must be carried out at an avionics shop with proper test equipment and that the test would cost in excess of $100. Anybody know for sure?

 

[Bluebear]

Steve, You mention that you think the prewired unit is the way to go. Are you refering to a prewired remote switch? I don't see this as an option anyplace. Is one on the market?

 

[sierra bravo]

I'm considering a replacement of my 121.5 elt to a 406 unit at annual time. I've carried a personal 406 PLB unit for years and understand the utility of the 406 system.

I do have a question on the annual test process for the ELT. The Old 121.5 units were pretty simple - turn it on at the top of the hour and listen for the sound on the radio. I have heard that you cannot legally do that with the 406 units and that you will be in violation of FCC regs if you try. I also have been told that the annual inspection must be carried out at an avionics shop with proper test equipment and that the test would cost in excess of $100. Anybody know for sure?

Every 406 ELT that I've seen has a self-test that's required to be done periodically from the remote panel switch. Artex recommends once a month. ACK once every three months. Do what your manual says because there are only so many self-tests available before you kill the battery. Battery health is one of the things the self-test tests, by the way. The Artex manual says the self-test sequence satisfies the requirements of FAR 91.207(d) in the US but in Canada an additional digital signal test is required. That one requires special equipment.
http://www.faa-aircraft-certification.com/91-207-emergency-transmitters.html

 

[Ursa Major]

Thanks Stewart. The confusing part for me was the annual test provision under 91.207 (d) (4) " the presence of a sufficient signal radiated from its antenna" I wasn't aware that the self test function of these two ELTs covered this requirement - good to know. One of my local IAs was interpreting this to mean it had to undergo an instrumented test at an avionics shop.

 

[Darrel Starr]

I have the $550 ACK unit. Connected it to my Garmin 496. Made a test line with an LED & switch to easily check the ELT/GPS connection. All pretty straight forward. Can't think of a reason to spend more on some other unit.

 

[OLDCROWE]

Steve's pictures looked stellar, seeing they are of the rebirth my cub I think I'll chime in.


With the research Steve provided I made the choice for the fully self contained GPS equipped 406 which cost about as much as a 100LL fill up more than the alternate external GPS interfaced units and I'm glad I did (well other than the wire size BS). Specifically, I chose the all internal unit as my plan is to move my 'GPSde'jour' between aircraft and there will be times I'm certain that I'll get a wild hair and risked the wings bursting into flames because I went for a fly (with, the sum of all fears, no-WAAS GPS) on a summers jaunt and ventured too near the sun...


Oh and after seeing the antenna install on anouther at Steve's, I could think of no other antenna install I wanted, oh and the wing root location of arming thingie that was my brilliant idea for 604.


Think I'll order the same unit for the 180 but with the tin-skin may have to evaluate the antenna location.


Nice install Steve,


Kirby