Safety Vest

[joycub]

Not sure if this topic has been covered before, but if so, maybe it is time for it again with some new thoughts. Many of us here in Idaho wear a "Safety Vest" when we fly. The theory is that in an emergency situation you only think about getting out and running, and not about grabbing a safety gear bag, so all that you have with you is what you are wearing. When you fly you should wear what you want to survive with on you. I really hate to think about the possibility of being upside down with this darned heavy (5.5 lbs)vest to deal with while getting out of the plane. I do try to make myself wear it anytime I leave this Valley. Several of the flyins that I attended last summer guys were pulling out their vests and comparing ideas, and thought it would be fun to do so on this websight. I am including a list of what is in my vest pockets. These items are what I personally like knowing I will find when I am trying to survive. I hope to not use any of this stuff, but if I carry it with me, I should never need it, Right? My airplane is always packed with all sorts of other survival gear, but I am not going there right now. This is just first line survival. If you think I have tooo much or not enough of something it will be interesting to hear other opinions. With great reservations, I will now post a photo of me wearing my vest. I hate to think what SteveE (be kind) is going to do with this, but here I go:

2 - 5 oz bottles water
2 - packs electrolytes
Green Lazer
Small Medical Kit
2 - sterile "waterjel" gel soaked burn dressings
Roll of Gauze
Pill bottle containing tylenol, advil, aspirin
Opcon-A allergy eye drops
2 - Emergency space blankets
2 - Energy Bars
Large Orange Square patch
Flashlight
Lighter
Fire Starters
Compass
Whistle
Waterproof Matches
Emergency Wire Saw
More Eye Drops
Benedrill
REI Snake Bite Kit
McMurdo Fast find


Attached to vest on straps
SPOT
multi-tool

One other safety item strapped on a diagonal cross bar is a small bottle of scuba spare air, in case of unplanned water landing on bushwheels.

forgot to mention, I use a flyfishing vest, but any vest that is comforable with many pockets will work.

 

[Fabman]

It doesn't look like there is any room left for a fiver for in flight refueling.

 

[corvus-migrans]

You can overdo it a "little bit"
What I really miss is a strong good sharp knife !!!!

 

[SteveE]

Joy,,, I will refrain,,, since you bailed me out with Dave,,,but I sure can make that "bulging" vest a litte more user "friendly".

Maybe we should have a vote,,

 

[joycub]

SteveE, Guess it just needs one of those pink tee shirts with it.

The big knife is strapped in the cub. I did that after a friend told me how he had to cut his door fabric to get out when the door handle broke in his cub.

 

[Grant]

I have thought about this alot since last winter when I was fling over northern MN. I realized that no matter how well I greased it in I still had to survive until the cavalry came.

The company I work for is working on a survival vest and we are concerned with a quality vest. Some of what we have seen is the MOLLE style vests that allow you to build a custom solution for "YOUR" mission.

Our other requirement is that it must be able to integrate with a manual inflation vest as many of our customers are seaplane pilots.

I would welcome any input.

There is tons of info online about survival, but it really depends on your mission and geographic location.... for example I don't need a snake bite kit in northern MN. Or water for that matter.

Good topic....


Best "off the shelf" solution so far is by switlik. I am ordering one to demo.

 

[WhiskeyMike]

safety vest

I would be concerned about keeping my shoulder harness in place during an emergency with all that stuff, and the possibility of getting trapped inside the plane with it tangled. If you have to go down, and then smack your head, it won't matter what you carry. This has been a problem for me with life vests as well. In fact, I was half way across the English Channel last summer when I realized that I left that annoying thing in the baggage at the last stop. Point is, if it becomes a nuisance, you may not end up using it properly.

How about securing this gear in a reasonable place in the plane? Short of a fire, it won't matter. In case of a fire, you won't want anything getting in the way of getting out.

There's a thread today about gascolators, and "Steve's" gascolator is a good way to avoid fire in the first place.

 

[StewartB]

joycub,

I don't subscribe to the vest theory myself. I listened to Ray Tremblay advocate that survival gear is what's on your person when you exit the plane. It was his passion. Fair enough. My survival gear is being properly dressed, a Leatherman, and a sat phone. Beyond that? My standard survival gear pack weighs 24# and my supplemental winter pack another 20#. Both reside in my airplane. Here's another thread to review. http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=16927

The most important survival tool you can have is right between your ears. Good topic.

Stewart

 

[Grant]

I'll bet it wouldn't be so annoying if you were bobbing up and down in the channel... I'd bet my bottom dollar you wouldnt have grabbed it on the way out had you gone swimming. I know, everybody says "I'll grab it and put it on when I think I might need to go swimming".....Willing to bet your life on that? Point is, a good quality vest, made for aviation, designed to be worn in the cockpit, weather it has an integrated life vest or not, is critical to getting out of the airplane, the rest is up to you. You're right, just putting on some old vest and jamming it full of stuff doesn't mean you are going to survive, and it could very well make it worse, but knowing how to use it and keeping your head screwed on straight is what keeps you alive.

I had an interesting conversation with a North Atlantic ferry pilot the other day. He always said his exposure suit was easy to put on so he kept it next to him in the pax seat. I challenged him to a simple question. what is the engine failure procedure for the airplane he was flying? he rattled off a whole list of things, and I said "man thats alot of stuff". He was like "Yeah it is" so I said "makes me wonder what your altitude would be when you decided to get your exposure suit on". He tried to make excuses for himself but the reality is he came in a few days later and we talked again. He said I made him reconsider his procedures. I guess what I want to get across to anyone who reads this is that "dead is permanent", it doesn't "wear off" or "Buff out" and you can get seriously killed if you are not prepared. I dont want to preach but I have done the training (just like others here) and we can tell you it is alot harder to get out of a sinking airplane than a person may think.

As for survival gear in the airplane vs on your person, I guess it's 6 in one and half dozen in the other and it would, for me, depend on the circumstances.

Over water? "life vest and gear on person, you betcha"
Over land? "depends on time of year etc.....Winter? I'd dress for the weather and stow the survival gear, summer probably wear it"

No matter the opinions of us all it is still a Good Topic

 

[cubdriver2]

A friend of mine who was a AK trooper and flew for them for over 20 some years kept his survival vest on the front seat back so it could be grabbed on the way out of the wreck, I don't think most people will wear one every day,it's just to uncomfortable and hot, I think your better off improving your chance of surviving the accident with a good shouder harness and hard flying helmet, if you invest in a helmet with ANR headsets and you have no other headset choice when you want to go flying you'll wear it because that's all that's available.

Glenn

 

[JP]

Always a good topic and worth revisiting with each change of season.

I use a surplus SRU-21P Air Force mesh style vest. Plenty of room for your choice of gear (a topic extensively covered and always a good read) and comfortable to wear. When I'm flying out to the islands or around Acadia an inflatable life vests fits easily over everything. I also wear my DC helmet, which I modified with a military gentex visor and shield that I also bought surplus. Works like a charm.

Here is a close up of one exactly like it for sale on e bay right now. That's where I bought mine. Just go to e bay and put in "survival vest air force" and there are usually a couple of SRU-21Ps for sale. Or just put "survival vest" and check out the range of stuff. There's something for everyone and if you inclined to carry your survival stuff on you you can accomplish your goal for a very small and prudent investment. Even if Meade does make fun of me....

 

[joycub]

Enjoying all the responses on this thread. Hoping for lots more, as it is all food for thought. :-?

Grant, if you have input on that vest design, has consideration to it's practicality exiting and inverted airplane been considered. That is my latest thought since starting this thread. Mine is too heavy and needs to be lighted up by emptying some pockets. I have many "conveniences" if I believe that SPOT or McMurdo will get me out of a jam quickly.

Stearman600, I also have left my vest in my baggage area. That is one reason for starting this thread. Maybe someone has a better idea and will share it. I now place mine on the seat, so that I hopefully can remember to put it on.

StewartB, Yes the best safety device is right between your ears, and sometimes it fails us. That is why I wear a vest. Just in case of failure between the ears. Also concerned something else could fail between the prop and firewall.

Cubdriver2, I am also interested in getting a good helmet with good noise canceling headset, preferably bose. Good idea.

SteveE,,,,,Thanks

Keep bringing in those good thoughts everyone.

 

[Bill Rusk]

Great thread.

Thanks for the info.

Bill

 

[Torch]

It is always good to re-visit subjects because new items come on the market and we usually have some new members with a differing view. I just wear a Stearns vest because of the floatplane. I don't carry much in it. I have two survival blankets, a lighter, and a knife. I won't wear a bulky vest. I like to be comfortable when I am flying.

 

[spinner2]

I strap on a small fanny pack with the pack pulled around to the front. Inside is a PLB, large garbage bag, lighter, and signal mirror. I always have a multi-tool on my belt and often a cell phone.

The pack won't hold more and if it were too bulky I know I wouldn't wear it.

Having made some searches from the air I consider the signal mirror to be one of the most important items.

I also carry other gear in the plane but this is what is on my person.

 

[StewartB]

Dan,

Take a look at SureFire's new Saint Minimus headlamp. Incredibly bright, and the brightness is user controlled. It has a strobe function that's also user controlled for brightness. It'll make the mirror obsolete. And you don't need a bright sky for it to work. At full power it'll kill the lithium 123 battery in about an hour. At low settings it'll go for about 50 hours. It's a very cool new product.

SB

 

[scout88305]

2 vests in action both are flotation vests, one is the Stearns, the 2nd a Mustang which is way more money. Both fit well and you are inclined to wear them almost like a article of clothing. In addition to a sidearm which I carry all the time anyway,\

I have stuffed in the pockets
a Fenix AA flashligh with strobe (super ass bright)
1 candle
Portable Radio
Space blanket
A high quality survival knife in Sheath (not a folder)
bug dope
Para chord
Bug net
leather gloves on a carabiner
wildland firefighters first aid kit (have someone in forestry get you one)
orange poncho in ziplock bag
pen flare
several fire starter sources
much more stuff starts getting heavy

 

[JP]

Here is the DC helmet part of the deal, with the added surplus visor and visor shield:

 

[StewartB]

Jeff,

When you get old enough to not be able to see the radio frequencies any longer and readers won't fit under the visor?

http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/optx-20-20-stick-on-bifocals.html

SB

 

[JP]

Jeff,

When you get old enough to not be able to see the radio frequencies any longer and readers won't fit under the visor?

http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/optx-20-20-stick-on-bifocals.html

SB

Cool! That's a neat rig!

I wear contacts 99% of the time but glasses do fit under the visor with no problem. For some strange reason I've noticed that the small stuff is getting a bit harder to read as of late.... :roll:

 

[mvivion]

There is no "correct" list of stuff you should carry on your person. That list is a very personal one, and depends very much as well on what part of the country you're flying over.

I wore a Stearns inflatable vest stocked with my gear for 20 + years, before it was agency policy to do so.

The notion that you won't wear it is purely mental. If you decide it's not worthwhile, you won't wear it. But, it does help to not "over-do it" when it comes to stocking the vest.

Nowadays I wear a fishing vest, and keep the "load" pretty reasonable.

Think of categories, regardless of where you fly:

1) Fire starting.
2) Cutting tools
3) Signals
4) First Aid

I always want two or preferably three means to start a fire. Tested and true, for any conditions.

A good knife should always be part of a good "load". I carry a multi tool also. The knives on most multi tools are junk.

Signals nowadays should always include a PLB and a Signal Mirror. Lots of other options, like flashlights, etc. I don't carry pen flares or any kind of flares, since I've had people on the ground try to get my attention with them, and in daylight, they are almost useless. At night, a laser or flashlight works as well, and is a LONG DURATION signal, as opposed to a momentary flare. But, the PLB and mirror are basic necessities.

First Aid is a very individual thing. Blood stopper bandages (2), Blood stopper powder, Advil, a scalpel blade and a roll bandage about do it for most stuff.

Finally, don't leave home without some parachute cord. In the summer, bug dope.

You can load a vest up with so much stuff that you simply won't wear it, and/or it might impede your egress from the plane in an emergency. A good well thought out vest won't impede your exit, and will keep you going for a long time with nothing else. Which is the point.

MTV

 

[Speedo]

No mention of an egress tool.

One of my phobias is surviving the crash but having trouble getting free of the belts or being stuck inside due to a jammed door or window.

I've never found the perfect tool for cutting belts and busting plexiglass, but if there was such a device I think I'd want one on my person where I could get to it easily. I have an automotive belt cutter/windshield breaker, but it's not very well made and I don't have a lot of confidence in it.

I agree with Mike's comment that the vest contents are very much a personal decision - bugs drive some people crazy but don't bother others, same for allergies (hence the Benadryl recommendation). On my list of mandatory pharmaceuticals: Excedrin Migraine and artificial tears.

Eric

 

[Grant]

When it comes to meds, ask a doctor to prescribe some real meds. just find a doc who trusts you and knows why you want them. My doc thinks it is a good idea and is completely ethical.

I had also heard there are some good general anti-biotics that can be a real help if you were to be exposed to some bad water or food. I would assume there is also a good general purpose anti-viral too.

Any docs out there agree or disagree? thoughts?

 

[WhiskeyMike]

survival vest

I'm not too proud to point out my own stupidity, especially if it can help someone else. It was really stupid to forget my life vest in the baggage over the channel and I felt like a total jackass when I realized it. It might have been sub conscious because it is a bit awkward to wear. Yes, I had my "tail" well up between my hind legs and waiting anxiously for the coast.

We always wear helmets towing banners and they have saved at least one life in my experience. I know of one case where a banner pilot in a Citabria stalled into the ocean right in front of a crowded beach, hit his head and drowned. I can't imagine trying to swim with a concussion and/or damaged leg. My only point is that the vest should not impede being able to get out of the plane or tangle in the shoulder harness.

 

[Grant]

the vest should not impede being able to get out of the plane or tangle in the shoulder harness.

ROGER THAT!

P.S. - Didn't mean to come off as judgmental.

 

[OVEREASYGUY]

I had a blast building my survival pack -so much fun it made me want to go get lost and test it.

After a great deal of thought - I concluded a great way to test your survival pack would be as follows. Mid January or early February - walk out your back door into your backyard with your survival pack and have fun for 24 hours and see how you feel! You dam well better be able to get a big fire going and have a saw to assist in getting wood to keep it going. No going back inside to warm up either! I suspect half the people who tried this wouldn't make it.

If you do make it - wait until the next weekend and have a friend beat the crap out of you with a 2 X 4 first to simulate injuries from an airplane crash - then sit out in your backyard for 24 hours! If you pass this test - then you are a certified member of the survival club!

I bought an ACR Personal Locator Beacon because I realized I could take off at my home, crash in the trees just off the end of my runway and no one would find me for days! Also the SPOT is a cheap way of getting help.

I think if the survival vest is too big - too many times you wont put it on!
I would definitely recommend multiple ways to start a fire - one being a lighter! Since they usually work - have the flint stick as a back up.
Statistics and reports by Cessna indicate your odds of survival increase dramatically if you wear a helmet - i'm amazed I don't see more people wearing them.

Joycub - I think you have way too much stuff in that survival vest!

cliff in Maine

 

[cubdriver2]

Here is the DC helmet part of the deal, with the added surplus visor and visor shield:

On a side note, Jeff, how many hours a day do you stand in front of the mirror with your helmet on? :lol:

Glenn

 

[StewartB]

No mention of an egress tool.

One of my phobias is surviving the crash but having trouble getting free of the belts or being stuck inside due to a jammed door or window.


Eric

I have Res-Q-Me tools on my airplane keychains in case I need to cut a seatbelt. I figure my doors are secure enough for flight but wimpy enough to push open in an emergency. http://www.resqme.com/what_is_resqme.html

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned spare glasses, since what glasses you may have been wearing would likely be lost during egress. I become more dependent on mine all the time. I used to laugh at guys who bought three packs of readers. These days I could use a 12 pack.

Stewart

 

[aktango58]

I wear an inflatable fanny pack sterns PFD.

I have lots of goodies in the plane for survival, light sleeping bag, sleeping pad, stove etc in the plane summer, add heavy sleeping bag, (wiggys warm when wet) and tent for winter.

I tried wearing vests. Every one I tried would either hang up in the shoulder harness or push on the back of my neck. Build one that fits, I would wear it.

Cliff, I have done the survive situation. You forgot to add: soak everything down in the bath tub, through it in an action packer and roll it down a big hill... At zero, soaking wet, tired and STUCK I found out that my camp stove would not work, and almost had a fire take out my tent. The more you practice with this stuff the better.

Any survival gear you do not know how to use is worthless when you need it. Practice with it. Use it, (especially food) and replace it with new...

And remember, you can survive with out food for days, but water purification is important!

 

[GeorgeMandes]

For my wife and I, this is an ongoing process, as we add/delete based on where we are flying and changes in the technology. We both wear the same brand vest, made by US Divers with a detachable float collar (single or duel tube) and it is better than anything else we have or have tried.

Stuff carried is communication (small 406, Iridium, Vertex radio), light (small Surefire, small headlamp), fire (several means to start a fire), fix (small Leatherman, seat belt cutter) and seeing (glasses to back up my contacts and cheater glasses).