Reversible prop on wheels? (185)

[Cardiff Kook]

Seems like lots of value on floats- but wheels?

I see some advantage for convenience (three point turn, not having to get out and push)- but wondering if the big time advantage is on floats and wheels is kind of whatever.

This is the mt prop on a skywagon. How much weight does it add?

Wouldnt reversing cause the tailwheel to pivot backwards putting a bunch of strain on it?

 

[DENNY]

The major strain would be more on the fuselage than the tailwheel, you have it backwards every time you push it back. But with the prop now you are compressing the entire fuselage and parts to move it back. I pretty sure the MT is lighter than a regular prop. DENNY

 

[mvivion]

Frankly, reversing props on reciprocating engines have limited utility, even on floats.

MTV

 

[sj]

Yep, limited utility - but fun to play with.

sj

 

[Mot]

It would make a good...but expensive...leaf blower.

 

[tempdoug]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbQSC_-OaWE

 

[mvivion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbQSC_-OaWE

Not a recip, whole different world there, and BTW, that's a great way to "De-FOD" your hangar.

MTV

 

[BC12D-4-85]

De-FOD and launch the hangar cat across the pad

Gary

 

[peterdillon]

Had reverse on a cub for many years. On wheels I would agree it has limited value although I don't see how its going to hurt anything like the tail wheel at low power settings as no more force than pushing it back by hand. On wheels directional control is not the best when backing up. More importantly when your taxing forward the angle of the engine dictates that the prop wash is directed downward so when you back up the reverse is true and it actually lifts debris up into the prop. On gravel the wheels potentially kick stones up towards the prop in reverse adding to that problem.
On floats its a totally different story. While there is a bit of a learning curve once you get used to it you can to do many things that are impossible without. Because (except for the turbine boys) pilots never had it as part of our training we learned to avoid any situation were we needed reverse and consequently over time don't see any need for it. For this reason when we put it on our cub years ago it we didn't even try some of the things we do with it now.
Some things are simple like if it looks like you might hit a Caravan at the dock or hit a rock just put it into reverse. By toggling back and forth between forward and reverse even in a wind you can basically remain motionless so the bonus is you get neutral too.
I could go on and on but here are just a few things that you might not think of and picture these when you are out in the wilds by your lonesome.
Warm up at the dock in neutral and untie when your ready and jump in and go. Heeled into shore in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery just hand prop in reverse and put it in forward when your ready to go. Taxi into a sand beach nose first, jump out and have a pee, throw it into reverse and back out to deeper water and turn around and go. Taxi into a narrow bay or river no wider than the airplane and jokey between forward and reverse to make a turn in the length of the floats. Miscalculate a landing and you can stop as in right now. If your in a big wind by yourself in most situations you can be pinned to the dock before you kill the engine. If you ever need to drift backwards in excessive winds in big water you can adjust your speed or lateral direction to suit any situation.
Just my opinion but if we all had trained on floatplanes with reverse nobody would want one without it.

 

[kestrel]

How about on skis?

Wheels and skis, I've had some long landings on frozen lakes.

 

[BC12D-4-85]

There was a Cessna floatplane in Fairbanks that had one. Owner came from Anchorage area with clients. Pulled into my open parking spot, called a cab for them to overnight, and backed out from shore on departure. Neat!

Gary

 

[Randyk]

There was a Cessna floatplane in Fairbanks that had one. Owner came from Anchorage area with clients. Pulled into my open parking spot, called a cab for them to overnight, and backed out from shore on departure. Neat!

Gary

I remember him. He would turn final at 4,000' and land short in the float pond. He said he got the prop so he could duck hunt the small lakes around Minto.

 

[stewartb]

Can you use an MT for beta on a Skywagon?

 

[Cardiff Kook]

Can you use an MT for beta on a Skywagon?

And whats beta[emoji2369] ha

 

[stewartb]

Turbines can put their props into “reverse” after touchdown to slow the plane. I’ve never heard of beta being used with a piston engine. Reversing the pitch is “beta”. I thought MTs had a safety scheme to prevent doing it. I really don’t know anything about MT. Hartzell is making the props all the Skywagon guys want. I’m happy as can be with my Mac. Reverse isn’t important.

 

[skywagon8a]

"Beta" is actually the blade angle between forward and reverse with which no thrust is produced in either direction. The British term for this blade angle is "ground fine". It's original purpose was to keep turboprop engines from over heating during start up and ground operations. All propellers with "beta" blade angles do not necessarily also have a reverse blade angle.

 

[frequent_flyer]

Beta definitions according to Hartzell Propeller:

 

[Cub Builder]

I've got a customer that has been insisting he wants to mount a reversing 3 blade MT on his Scout for land use. The MT prop governor centrifugally locks out reverse pitch above 1400 RPM. Installation instructions also require an air switch installed on the Pitot system to prevent in flight use of reverse pitch. There is no STC to install this prop on the Scout, although there is a 337 available. The company that has the 337 wants $4300 just for a copy so we could request a field approval from FSDO. I told the customer it's only use on a land plane would be to show off backing into the hangar. I think I finally have them talked out of it, so will be installing a longer 2 blade constant speed prop instead.

 

[akavidflyer]

I've got a customer that has been insisting he wants to mount a reversing 3 blade MT on his Scout for land use. The MT prop governor centrifugally locks out reverse pitch above 1400 RPM. Installation instructions also require an air switch installed on the Pitot system to prevent in flight use of reverse pitch. There is no STC to install this prop on the Scout, although there is a 337 available. The company that has the 337 wants $4300 just for a copy so we could request a field approval from FSDO. I told the customer it's only use on a land plane would be to show off backing into the hangar. I think I finally have them talked out of it, so will be installing a longer 2 blade constant speed prop instead.

If you have the N number, 10 bucks will get you a copy of the 337...

 

[kestrel]

I wouldn't have objected to having reverse today. 900 ft should be plenty! ...but a few knots of tailwind plus the snow was not very deep (didn't sink in much), warm and fast. The runway end was a driveway snow bank that crosses the normally longer runway. Did a bit of a sliding turn at the end. I don't think it would have stopped going straight ahead.

 

[Flyingde]

There’s a kid named Austin who has one on his Husky who flies in a lot of the Stol competitions. It’s fun to watch. If money is not a problem it would be a neat option to play with.

 

[okmike]

Andrew Patry has one on a 1959 C182 he uses in STOL competition also.

 

[peterdillon]

When you are backing up with a taildragger on wheels you might as well close your eyes as keep in mind you basically have zero visibility.
On floats thats no problem.